Welcome back to the Roadman podcast. Today I get a chance to sit down with the one and only Michael Bling Matthews and he opens up and he gives me the benefit of his years experience and he tells me everything that he knows as a pro that he wish amateur cyclists knew. Welcome to the podcast.
It's Bling Matthews. Bling Matthews, welcome. Welcome back to the podcast in person.
Round two. Or is it round three? It's round two.
>> Round two. >> Round two. It's been a minute though.
>> Yep. How long has it been actually? I don't know.
It's It's over a year, I'd say. >> I was trying to think back because I was trying to think back and go, "Oh, definitely shouldn't cover the same stuff we talked about last time, but I have no idea what we talked about last time." So, maybe we will cover it and someone will write in and be like, "You just had the exact same conversation 12 months ago.
" >> Well, I think I've only done like two or three podcasts. So, I think >> ever. >> Yeah, I haven't done that many.
>> There's not that many cycling podcasts though, is there? >> No, there probably. I mean, we do like some interviews at training camps and stuff, but yeah, I mean, like coming and doing this separate from the from the team is uh is a bit more rare.
Yeah, >> interviews are kind of weird as well, I think, because they're like such [ __ ] It's like no, >> it's always the same question. >> How does it feel to win a stage of tour to France? Like, oh, I'm really disappointed.
Like, what are you going to say there? Good. >> Yeah.
I mean, yeah. What do you What are you expected to say with the questions like this? But yeah, I I'd rather this atmosphere where it's a bit more relaxed, bit more uh bit more different questions away from the away from the normal.
Let's say >> you Monaco crips on yesterday. Everyone hates you. Exhibition crit.
You forecast. >> Let's say I didn't make many friends. That's for sure.
No, it was good fun. I mean, uh anytime I pin on a pin on number, I won a race. And I think u yeah I think everyone's in different uh periods of their their form and I think everyone had a different idea of how that race was going to be run but um yeah sorry boys but uh I was there to race.
>> So how does a Monica crit work? Do you get invited to it? Can I show up and race?
>> Uh I think it has to be pros uh racing the actual crit. Um yeah a current pro. I think you have to >> just in case you get a chopper in the middle of it.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I talked to some other guys from that are not pro cyclists like triathletes and stuff and they were sort of asking if they could join too which there is a team time trial in the morning which we do. I think it's like one pro cyclist one pro athlete from another sport and then paid uh riders that pay to ride with us to do the event.
So there is that. >> Who would pay to do it? I paid not to do that with you.
Who would pay to get such a twist? >> Well, someone did and they got dropped the first corner and it was a fivelap race. So, I mean, yeah, it's it's meant to you're meant to stay together, but I didn't actually really understand or know the rules.
So, yeah, I was I was there to race now. So, our our group split up pretty fast. But, um I just actually found out maybe half an hour ago that we were second, but I didn't go to the podium because I didn't know we were on the podium, but my team was on the podium.
We were second. So, >> nice. You're the king of the mix relay as well, so this is kind of your thing.
This weird team time trial is your niche these days. >> Yeah. I don't know why.
I I mean I think it's something maybe for Australians that we're always seem to be quite good at from uh naturally. I don't know why. I think um always in green edge we always do a really good team time trial and now with national team also a really good team time trial.
So yeah I think it's um something we do as kids a lot of uh a lot of these sorts of sorts of racing like handicap races and stuff like this when we're kids. So maybe it comes from that. I don't know.
But >> did you do Euro in 2014 when Spain took the jersey in Belfast in the team? >> I was in both. I was in the one in San Remo and the one in Belfast.
Yeah, when we took the jersey. >> Yeah, he deserved that. It was his birthday, too, which was quite cool.
Yeah. So, that was like >> he's he's so selfless, this guy. He sacrificed himself for every single day of his career, basically.
>> And uh for us to Yeah. He We didn't even give him the jersey. He he deserved that jersey.
He was He was probably the strongest guy there in our team and he drove us all along to to take that pink jersey. So, he earned it as much as as much as we gave it to him. >> Endurance spins was fer legendary.
I've heard the lads leaving on Tuesday morning for an endurance spin and coming back on like Thursday evening. >> Yeah, I've heard some of the stuff this guy does and it was Yeah, it was crazy. >> The the stories tone his trailer across Canada and stuff when he was younger were wild.
He does camps now. Like wild camps. >> Oh yeah.
>> Like Yeah. I want to go one of them. They're like I know West Coast Canada.
But they're like offseason training like Ivan Drago and Rocky 4. You could go out there to Spain stubbling stumbling snow. And >> I mean we should do it actually.
Get the team out there and just like like a survival sort of camp. That would be a good bond like team bonding I reckon. Didn't didn't the team in the like teams in the past they used to go and like climb Mount Kilimanjaro and things like this or like Saxo Bank or something were doing some weird thing last week.
Uh you said Bramson was on the podcast a few weeks ago and so I was following on Instagram and I clicked in he was like running through rivers and tripping over and I was like that's got to be an ankle breaker there >> with the team or it was with the team. >> I heard the other day that actually they went to already Sierra Nevada for three week training camp already now. Is that true?
Uh possibly they could have been up there. They were running. I see the whole team are turbo.
>> It's crazy. No, it's already three altitude camps a year. Now this is four or >> three altitude camps a year.
>> Well, normally it's like uh February, uh May, June, and then some guys again after after tour to France in August, September. >> So actually >> you're already doing them now in uh end of December, end of November, early December. >> This is actually interesting.
I'd love to dig into this for a minute is like cuz so many people most people listening the overwhelmed majority are going to be amateur cyclists listening to the podcast. They're they're not world tour riders. Uh >> like what's the overview of the season look like for you?
Like you finish up normally worlds Canadian classics around then you take a bit of downtime. >> Um I mean it's always difficult. Um it's also depending on your team.
Like for us, we we were trying to chase a lot of world tour points this year at the end of the season after the the Worlds and and Canada. So we we were done a lot of the lot more of the races where normally for me I would finish after after worlds. Um a lot of years that was my final race of the year was World Championships.
But now with obviously the the points system that's the ranking and everything like this, we needed to I needed to continue racing a bit more and I I missed a bit more in the middle of the season with my health problems. So I was like 29 days of racing or something. So I was honestly happy to to keep racing.
But yeah, it would it's it is a nice a nice way to finish with the world championships like that you go full gas for the worlds and then finish off after that. But now with the racing after the worlds, it's actually quite cool. like you have the Vento Classics and this sort of stuff like um also Japan Cup that I did this year >> also a really cool race get to go to Japan and experience something different to what we normally have.
So I mean it's up to the individual or to the team um basing on what they want to do. >> What's going on with the post tour criteriums like what are we doing with them cycle news and stuff reporting like they're real races and it's like >> this is WWF like Raglitch is in full winter kit in Singapore. He didn't even take off his winter tights.
>> Yeah. I mean this is a bit I guess controversial at the moment isn't it? Like uh I don't know how much you can really say about it but I mean yeah I think you go there sort of as promotion for for ASO to yeah the guys that did really well in the tour to France sort of like a parade lap for them in uh in in Singapore and in in Japan.
But I mean I'm I'm all for it. I think uh in a way it's cool but yeah the racing is uh yeah when guys are riding around in legas and jackets and stuff like this you can it's pretty obvious the situation. >> How much cash are they dangling at boys to go out there like you know like the bromats rod is making 5 million year almost 500k a month taking a week out of his life to go out to Singapore they're he's not getting paid 10k for this like it's it's a decent wedge of cash to go out there assumingly.
Yeah, I think it's I think it's individual. I mean, I think for for a jersey, if you win a jersey, it's a certain price, but also I think a rider like him has his level of what he would expect from to go to a crit like this. >> I mean, for me, the offseason is to take off and it's to be with my family and to to do other things other than cycling.
But >> yeah, I mean, everyone has their own idea of what they want to do in their offseason. So, I'm I'm not judging anyone on it. >> Your miss is not saying to you like 500k, get out the door, get to Singapore.
No, no, I she's uh trying to Yeah. trying to have me home as as much as she can cuz I mean for us now these days, I think I was home maybe two months of this year. So if you uh if you put another trip onto that with um yeah, Singapore and and Japan, >> it's uh there's no time really at home with your family.
I mean, I got a daughter now that's seven that I hardly even see, unfortunately, because I'm away so much with the sport. So anytime I'm not with the team, I'm trying to be as home as much as I can. >> Is that hard?
Like are you facetiming like kind of it's that funny age where you actually aren't missing stuff. It's not like at 16 to 17 nothing really good happens from them ages. >> Yeah.
I think especially now it's become sort of like normal that I just disappear for a week or two at a time or even three weeks for a training camp or or a grand tour. >> So it's like yeah it's become the norm which is actually not good I think. like when I leave for a race or something, she's like, "Okay, see you.
" Like it's it's difficult. And I feel that more and more now that I am also getting older myself that the amount of stuff that I miss when I'm at a race. Um that's starting to get to me a little bit I would say cuz uh my wife went for a couple of days away away from from us and I was doing the the daily things with my daughter and doing those things just me and her and feeling like the feeling she gives you when you spend more time with her and she's really dependent on you to to get her ready for school to take her to school.
she's waiting for you to pick her up from school, go to all the different activities after school, whether it's like sports or um different homework clubs or anything like this. It's you really feel that connection. And I think for with me and my daughter, we honestly haven't spent enough time really together full-time, just me and her to really >> get that full connection that we've been able to get in this off season that we connected a lot more, I would say.
And I think now when I leave for this next training camp, uh I think this weekend, >> I think it's been more difficult already. >> Yeah, we're on 29th a little bit earlier this year than normal, which is actually cool. I mean, we're back earlier, too, before Christmas.
So, I would rather it actually this way than be later in December and then go all the way through till Christmas. >> So, that was going to almost answer my next question. Like, when's the you're back?
You take the, you know, you do the maybe Japan Cup and the couple of crits, you take a little break, get back into base miles or you straight back in with intensity and reverse periodization now? Yeah, everyone's sort of different, but for me personally, I don't really do the base miles. I don't really That's quite old school, I would say.
But a lot of people still do it. But I find it boring to be honest. I think for me, I like to just go out and ride hard already pretty much straight away.
Like uh I was already my I was only in my first week of training for the crit yesterday and I was already racing full gas. So I mean like I'm like a kid in a candy store. As soon as I can ride my bike, I'm full gas.
But to be fair, I had four weeks without the bike. Where a lot of guys have like 2 weeks, 3 weeks maximum. I took four.
Every year I take four weeks no bike. So >> when you say full gas, like you were talking, we're talking off air and you were saying you train a little bit less structured maybe than some of the other pros locally. It's like are you letting the terrain dictate your effort or are you going out the door with like, you know, the usual that we'd have a shopping list of stuff to do?
>> No, I don't have a shopping list of stuff to do. Honestly, I have on my Garmin. uh my coach puts the efforts I need to do, but it's not like, okay, after 1 hour you need to do this, after 1 hour 20 you need to do this.
It's like when I see guys with this on their on their computers, it makes my head explode. I would rather the the freedom of cycling where you go and you're riding around with the with one other guy or whatever and you're sort of drag racing a little bit and you get to a climb and you're like, "Okay, I'll press start now for my effort." I'm going to make sure I climb and I'm going to do that effort.
No, I don't like that. I mean, for me, I've been pro what 14 years maybe. And I think that's what's kept the fun in the sport for me is that sort of freedom of cycling where you just go out and enjoy the bike rather than having to make sure you're ticking every single box along the way.
>> Is who's got a Christian shout coaching you? No, my coach is Australian guy, Brian Stevens. He's been my coach since I was Yeah.
20 20 years old. >> That's good. I've had Christian on obviously Jake go on the pod.
Yeah. Interesting. Definitely smart and >> switched on.
Does your style of training? Does that almost mean you have to like kind of curate your training partners or >> Yeah, a lot of the time because I think uh I mean a lot of people don't like to train with me because I train too hard for the whole ride. Let's say that's why I think like guys like me and Tad we link up quite well with training is because we train quite similar.
He he loves to ride hard all day and then do his efforts where I'm >> like what are you top on too? >> Yeah. I would say high high 200s low 300s most of the day >> all day.
Yeah. I'll go and train with you. >> Yeah.
So a lot of guys don't like to do that. They like to train a bit easier and then harder efforts which it's fine. It's just a different style of training.
>> Yeah. That's massively fatiguing. I'm guessing your your system of it.
Have you arrived at that true experimentation where you did try to more polarized? >> Yeah, in the past I think like around 20 2020 with the co we were sort of playing a little bit with riding easier and doing harder efforts. But then I felt at the race I was arriving at the race.
I mean, I was good for the effort, but I wasn't fit enough to get through the race. >> Yeah. >> So, that was my feeling in the race that I was un underdone, let's say.
I never felt like I could get through the whole race and be strong at the end. So, that's why I feel like I need to go back to I needed to go back to my old way, which was training hard all day and then doing my >> It's kind of weird though because if we were talking about someone who trains hard all day, you'd be like kind of sounds like a triathlete that has no pop. But it's the whole opposite of you.
like your whole career has been built on pop. It's like it it kind of nearly goes back to the nature versus nurture. It's like do you think you just genetically have that pop?
>> I think so. I mean I see now already I've only been training for one week and I'm already doing some of my highest sprinting numbers. >> What are you hitting in sprint?
Like >> I mean it's my highest of of now was was like 15 1550 >> just straight off without no training. So I mean I think if I if I work on that more it's it can get to 1650s which yeah but these days sprinting is not really like that anymore. So for me to win a sprint that I in my race I need to be the fittest guy at the finish of a harder group.
>> Yeah. >> So I need to be able to get through a harder race because I'm not going to win a bunch sprint let's say against the Philipssons and these sorts of guys. So, I need to get through a harder race and be the strongest guy with the best legs in that finish.
>> Yeah, you're also not far off on the >> Yeah, I honestly just don't really like the bunch sprints anymore. I mean, >> the chaos. >> Yeah, I mean, you have to have a strong lead out to support you and um our lead out was always with Dylan um doing his races.
So, my races were more targeted to the smaller reduced sprints, which was fine. But um yeah, I think for the big bunch sprints, you really need to train in front of you to support you. Otherwise, you're just in the washing machine and it's just chaos.
>> Do you think sprints is changing? Like there seems to be more sprinters or like I would put you almost like in the Sagan mold where you could finish super fast out of a reduced group, a group of 40. It's like you're looking at you and Sagan back in the day.
Obviously, Sagan's gone, but it seems like the new generation of sprinters are just super capable of getting through hard days like >> Yeah, I think everyone sort of learned that being a pure sprinter these days is sort of a dying sort of breed. There's not so many pure sprinters anymore that don't do classics and stuff like this. Like you see like we mentioned a Philips and Hughes podium in rub which normally you don't see let's for example say Cavendish riding rube let's say back in the day where now riders have been like sort of transferring into this more diverse sort of sprinters where if you just if you're just a typical bunch sprinter there's not so many opportunities like even in the tour to France these days there's maybe four or five opportunities to win a stage in the tour as a sprinter now And back in the day there was say 10 plus stages which made sense but now when there's not so many stages to win it's >> I didn't I remember being and saying that he he dropped Cavesish going over a railway bridge.
>> I love that. So disrespectful. >> Yeah.
Yeah. I mean he's he wasn't the best of climber in his day but um yeah he won enough races to >> You think that's the end of that type of cal sprinter? Are we going to see them coming true again?
I mean, yeah, I I I don't think so. I I think it's I think it's done. I think uh what what TAD and UAE have done to cycling at the moment, it's they just ride full gas that it's like even sprint days, they just want to get it over and done with and and ride full gas all day.
And I think even even the tour to France and races like this that they also find for the spectators a normal typical bunch sprint of 200k long flat race is not exciting for spectators. So if it's not exciting for spectators they see that people are not going to watch until the last 5 minutes of the race then what's the point of it? >> Excuse the short interruption because I think you're going to want to hear about this.
If you've ever had a quiet thought in the back of your head, something to kind of just whisper to you, I'm not done yet. Then listen closely. For a lot of us, life has taken priority in recent years.
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And this is for athletes who feel like there's another chapter still to be written in their cycling journey. They're not ready to just quit, roll over, and quit cycling already. So, whatever level you're at right now, whatever that next chapter looks like for you, if this sounds like you, click on the link, which I'm going to leave in the description or the show notes down below.
You're going to land on a short application form. It'll generally only take you like 60 seconds to 90 seconds to fill this out. That application is going to help me understand where you're at and see if you're a good fit to work together on this not done yet program.
Once you submit it, you'll personally hear from me within 24 hours. Now, just be aware that this is a small cohort of coaching spots. I'm limiting it to 100 athletes, but I'm super excited.
So, no matter where you're at in your cycling journey, click on the link and we're going to chat real soon. Yeah. On that on the speeds going up like UAE just been like it's been insane the past couple of seasons, but and you're training with T every day like obviously he's maybe the greatest ever, but that UAE team like they were getting if you think back to even 2022, they were getting hammered in the media for not being strong enough to predict Tad.
Like he only won the tour on the last day. Remember Rugglitch had was it Platv? absolutely fell apart on the time that day great day ruggage terrible day but it's that gap 20 end of 2022 to in 2024 they almost built this whole thing in two years they built this machine that's like as good as sky back in the day it's like how difficult is that to put together like what's the pieces there is it just budget or you know it just looks wild to watch how fast they've assembled it >> yeah I think first thing you need is a guy like like tad to important.
I think when when you've got uh a golden rider like that, a lot of people will buy into going to help that team become the juggernaut that it is now. But if you don't have that key guy that you can say to guys like Tim Wellland and guys like this to come from another team to support this guy to be as successful as he is, then it's not going to work. Like if we look back to BMC for example, when they first came on, they bought all the best riders, >> unbelievable team, but they wouldn't work together.
They all wanted to be the kingpin of the team. >> And I think that's what UAE has done really well is they found that rider to lead the team and draw draw other people to coming into helping build that team like it is now. But I think also their scouting of the young riders is also really good.
Del Toro, >> prime example, and the other 10 riders they have on the team, too, you know. So, it's it's very impressive what they've been able to to do in such a short time. That's for sure.
>> Is it infuriating to race against? Is it infuriating to race against? Is it like at times it's just like, "Oh, lads, leave it out.
" Like, what? Why are we riding so hard? >> Yeah, it is.
But you at the same time, you know exactly why they're doing it. So I mean if the tables were turned and we had the opportunity to do the same we would do the same you know and it's like like you said before sky days in the tour to France when they were just riding the front every every day on the climbs and just nullifying all the attacks it was quite boring I think for the for the fans it was some of some of the more boring tour to France to watch but in the end they're winning the races so I mean the sponsors are happy you know >> because you've you've straddled almost this generational change in a lot of stuff like [ __ ] Mafi in the a recent podcast of actually this is probably out before the F podcast but chat maf earlier today we're in these still and he was just talking about the kind of the changing of the guards like sky came along and it almost marks this inflection point in cycling where cycling prek sky and post sky and it's like post sky speeduits arrow helmets but this has been taken up another level again it seems like you're one of the only few riders has left. Garant has finished up this year that's straddling boat worlds that you've seen what it's like to be starving at the end of a training ride and now you get to feel what it's like to eat 120 grams of carbs on a training ride that what's the big changes you've noticed in this change into the guard era?
I think exactly like you just said. I mean, uh, we when I first started into into World Tour, it was like starve yourself as much as you can and still try and produce the numbers that you're expected to do. And now it's completely done a full 360 and it's now eat as much as possible and uh yeah, you train even harder.
So it's that that's one thing but I think that's sort of maybe blown up a bit more than for me anyway than it probably is because I mean in the end as humans we have to adapt too no like everything in in life changes even in any other job things do change over a long period of time so it is normal that things will change but for me personally I just I love the sport I love to ride my bike and I'm quite adaptable let's say to these small things because I don't make it a bigger thing than it actually is. I mean, people might, let's say, use as an excuse like, oh, I'm not so good anymore because it's changed. >> I don't really overthink that.
I just say, okay, if you want me to eat more carbs now, okay, I eat more carbs. It is what it is. And you just keep training and you see how the outcome is of trying a different fueling phase or trying to Yeah.
eat how many carbs you can and then see what power you can produce or try and do low carb and see how that reacts. It's it's fun to play with, but uh in the end I think it's a small detail of the whole picture. I would say I think it's blown up to a bit more uh problem than for me than it actually is.
>> Well, you know what I think it is for amateurs, we we want to put our finger on something. And it's like, oh, they're good because this >> like it when it's not a simple answer. It's you're good because like I was talking like did you go in the beer last night after?
You're like no. It's like oh like [ __ ] it's November. You can go in the beer after crit in his hometown.
It's like it's the accumulation of hundreds of small decisions >> 100%. I mean for me I go to bed at 10:00 every night. I wake up at 7:00 every morning.
I have exactly the same routine. I don't drink. I don't party.
So, I mean, yeah, I think in the offseason lot a lot of guys, they need to blow off some from some some steam from the season, take some stress off and go and party and drink a lot, which is fine. I mean, that's what you need to do. That's what you need to do.
But for me, I use that uh off season to rest. I don't touch my bike. I don't think about cycling.
I totally turn off my mind. So, when it's time to train again, it's time to train again. But, it's not that I was partying the whole four weeks that I was off the bike.
I was regenerating all the energy in my body to when I get back on the bike, I'm ready to go again. But I feel like some guys, they spend their off season doing all the stuff they felt like they were sacrificing during the year and then they arrive back to training again and they're like, "Oh, I'm actually even more tired now than when I >> skiing for the last two weeks." >> Exactly.
So, I mean, I if they need to do it, that's that's fine. That's their decision that they need to go partying and drinking and whatever else. Everyone has their own idea, but for me that's that's time to be with my family and regenerate the energy.
>> Is that mature Michael Matches? Like is 2010 you're winning you your you 23 worlds 2010 like is are you going to the piss then? Honestly, I done it so much as a kid um before I was actually 18, I'd say that I think I 14y old schooling.
>> I got it I got it I got it out of my system quite early which I think it could have gone really bad but in the end now for for my cycling career let's say I think it actually was a blessing that I was out sneaking out of my own house and going and drinking and partying and stuff before I was even 18. And then once I found cycling, I was still, let's say, going out, but I was like, I got to train in the morning. I'm not going to drink.
I'll I'll just dance. I'll party. I'll be with you guys.
I'll be the designated driver, >> but I'll drive home and then I can train in the morning, which I sort of figured out that system where it's like, okay, I'm still with my mates. I'm still enjoying myself. I'm I'm young.
Why not? >> Still back in Australia. >> This is in Australia.
This is before I was professional um during my under 23 and under 19 categories. And I was still Yeah. going out and and partying with my with my friends but not drinking because I I didn't like the the next day after drinking the the hangover that you have from from drinking.
And I I found out myself that I could still have fun. I could still dance. I could still be with my friends and basically act like I'm drunk when I wasn't even drunk.
So, >> no one likes to be around that dude to sober and remembers everyone's drunken mistakes. >> Yeah. But at the same time, if you're driving them home, they're happy.
So, someone's got to do it. What what was the leadup to that 2010? What that was the first time I ever heard your name.
It's probably the first time a lot of cycling fans heard your name. Were you based in Australia before that? >> No, I was in Europe.
I was in Italy with the national team um for um I think last year under 19s we did a stint of like 3 months maybe in Italy and then under 23s first year and second year we were pretty much in Italy the whole year. And were you riding like were you a favorite going into that race? >> Yeah, I would say so.
I mean in Lavier just before I think I was top 10 on GC as a non climber. >> It's a big run. >> Yeah, I think I was like seventh overall and I think I was podium in pretty much every stage.
Um so I was very consistent but I wasn't winning everything I started. I was good in a lot of the Italian one day races and stuff, but yeah, I think I was me and Degan Cob were were the favorites of the race. >> I forgot about him.
What a beast he was. >> We're just talking earlier on about the cobble stages in the tour of France. Uh I was over watching it on the beer in the year Thomas won 2018 cob won that cobble surge that year.
It was like brilliant performance from him. Yeah, I think he he was also so close to winning a tour to France stage for so many years and then to win that like cobbled stage, let's say like he's uh like the rubé sort of style that was yeah I think a a very big uh weight off his shoulders for sure. >> Did you sign world tour after winning U23 worlds?
>> Uh I signed actually during Lavanir so I was already ra um when I went to the worlds. >> That's like one of my favorite alltime kits. >> Yes.
>> You still have some of it? >> Yeah. Yeah.
I keep a kit from every year actually. I still have the bike also that white, orange and blue sort of like flake through. >> Yeah, that was a nice bike.
>> Still my favorite bike of all time. >> The like the caps they had like proper nice cotton cap with a nice bit of loft on it. >> Yeah.
And that orange with the blue across the front with the ravo sign. Like that's still the for me the most iconic kit and I'm just so >> They're back this year. Are they with Visma this year?
>> Yeah. I mean I don't know if it's the same style kit but yeah the sponsor's back. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It doesn't have that same coolness factor about them. >> No.
Maybe it comes back. I don't know. But, uh, it would be cool to see it like bring back the total old school.
Uh, >> is that your favorite kit racer? >> I would say so. Yeah, I think so.
Um, just because it was like sort of that I I didn't grow up with cycling, so I didn't have that all all history of cycling. But for me, it was like the most retro kit that I sort of thought of when I thought about retro cycling. And it's like for me, it's the most iconic, I would say.
>> Do you still get a buzz and stepping out? Like I remember riding for teams the first year when I went to I signed for a French team and I remember getting the bag of kit off the French team and it was like cool running in France but the really cool part was when I went home and got to do races at home and you're in your French kit. It's like you're a bit of a swagger stepping out the door training.
Do you you still feel that all these years later? >> Um yeah 100%. I think uh one of my most exciting times of the year is getting new kit.
I think uh especially when it changes a little bit too. I think it's always exciting and I think MAP has done an amazing job >> like coming in so late notice to our team and what they've been able to deliver in just this year alone and I've seen a little bit the graphics of of next year's kit and it also looks just completely >> you going purple again. >> It's purple again.
Y >> was really nice last year. I thought it was probably the nicest kit in the bunch last year. >> I've never been asked so much for kit from people other than this year.
>> It's unbelievable. and and uh yeah, it's like you sort of you want to hand it out because you're proud of your jersey, you know, but at the same time, you're like we we need everything we can get. We're not we're not like a charity just giving away stuff, you know, like we we get enough kit to do what we need to do.
And like like I said, MAP coming in quite late. It was a really big demand on them to try and meet this world tour level from from just like uh what they were doing before which was amazing but to come to our level of our sport were at the top and normally sponsors like that they come in on like a stepping stone no like ease their way in but they've been amazing they >> done such a cool job though didn't they cuz do you know some of those brands they're like they start small then they build kind of a niche following and then whatever happens they get a little bit wanky and then it's like only dentists buy the brand and then it seems to go on the downhill. MAP have kind of managed to scale cool maybe better than any brand.
>> Honestly, it's very impressive. I'm not just saying that because they're they're my sponsor >> and I have no affiliation with them so I have no reason to say >> that's uh I mean the kit itself it speaks for itself basically. The quality is so good.
Like even for us like we were thinking it was sort of like a this sort of like cool brand you know like when they when they came on board and they gave us this kit that was fully fully world to a level ready kit already from the start we're just like wow this is actually impressive like >> because you've got some blown away like they like plop like these guys value aerodynamics. >> Well we're checking in the wind tunnel all the time and the numbers that the that we're getting from the kit is mind-blowing. How many sets of kit would they give you for a season?
>> Uh it comes in sort of waves, let's say. I think um this this year was a bit difficult for them because we had obviously the men's team, the women's team. I think the development teams they were still with uh are they from from the last year's sponsors, but I think next year they're also going map.
So it was a bit at the start was a bit um all over the place. But it's it's hard to say exactly how many jerseys, how many shorts because we also get skin suits and different skin suits for different styles of racing. But >> we definitely get enough.
That's for sure. >> You're going home training home with bags of kit like >> Yeah, it's it's incredible. I I can't even imagine how much all this stuff must cost.
Like if you look on the website of of MAP, this stuff is proper quality stuff and we have bags and bags of it. >> So you're not running around the gaff like shouting at your misses going like, "Where's my left arm?" >> No, no, no, no, no.
They definitely supplied us >> socks. You know, I have this weird thing where no matter what socks I get, whatever shape my big toe is, it's like extra pointy. I get like 200k out of a set of brand new socks and I stick a hole in the sock.
It's grim. But it's good on stage races cuz I swap the socks out with a teammate then when it all goes in and you're like, I got your shitty sock with the hole in the front of it. No, for me socks have to be white.
I mean, white shoes, white socks, and as soon as they're a little bit uh grayish, they're gone. >> Gone. >> Yeah.
>> How long are you getting those silver shoes? >> Shoes? >> Yeah.
>> Depending on the time of the year, but early season, probably two months, I would say. >> That's a lot. >> A lot.
>> No, that's not a lot. >> That's not a lot. No.
>> But I mean, I I don't I don't like them when they change color. >> You buying shoes or your shoe sponsor? >> No, I have a I have a sponsor with Giant.
>> Giant do shoes? >> That's what nobody knows. Hopefully this is like a plug on your podcast here because even people that see my shoes, they're like, "Oh, those shoes are sick.
What are they?" I'm like, "They're Giant." They're like, "Oh, I didn't even know they make shoes.
" I'm like, I say to Giant all the time, "Can we do more?" Because they they sponsor me to wear the shoes. No.
So, I'm like, "Can we do more promotion of the shoes because they're such good shoes, but no one knows that actually Giant makes shoes." >> Yeah. >> Now they do.
>> There some brands have come in. I Nimble sent me out a set of shoes recently. They're pretty sick, but shoes are kind of expensive.
>> Yeah, I I I tried them before I started with Giant and they weren't they weren't the fit for me, but I mean a lot of people do wear them. I see them everywhere in the Pelon. >> They're wo I think that's like the attraction.
>> I didn't they didn't fit my foot nicely. So, the Giant fit much better. But yeah, looking on the websites of all the brands now, even Giant, I mean, they're I mean, you're buying good quality, you know?
So, it it makes sense the price, I guess. But yeah, you probably shouldn't get two months out of them like I do. >> I'm trying to think of buying nimbles 600 quid a set for two months.
Look, you're putting the mileage in. You're probably putting more mileage in two months than most people are in season. >> Yeah, it depends what time of the year.
I mean, for the classics and stuff, you destroy your shoes. I mean, with the weather and stuff we ride through in those those classics, they're uh they get pretty dirty fast. >> When you're sitting down this time of year, like what are you what are you thinking about that you're kind of looking forward to next year?
Is it you're looking at the Grand Tours? You're looking at the classics. What gets you excited?
>> Honestly, just racing my bike in general. I think um obviously the classics is is a certain area of the season and the the grand tours are a part a certain part of the season, but it's sort of like all just like steamrolls into one thing cuz you sort of like you get through one thing and you're moving on to another. But I mean the classics are the classics.
I think if I have to choose one, the fans at the classics, the the history of the classics, the unpredictability of the of the classics is for me probably most exciting cuz I mean the tour it's always a similar style of race. You know, you can you can pretty much get the same style of racing, but in the classics it's always something different. there's always a new guy that comes and changes the race in a certain way or the weather or I mean there's so many factors that can come into it that that make the race completely out of what you expected going into it.
So I mean if we go to San Remo for example 5 years ago it was a bunch sprint and now it's uh finish with solo moves and small little groups going off the front and right into the finish. So >> you think you win Sano? You've been so close so many like we were talking about the like I said you close the barriers close the barriers two years ago to Philipsson one look like you had a if you were to be super critical maybe you were too honest maybe a dirtier sprinter wins that but maybe a dirtier sprinter gets DQed and doesn't have second place I don't know >> I mean I I never I never raced for second place let's say but I mean I felt like in that sprint I I did everything I could to try and win I mean to beat Philipsson in a sprint these days is is quite difficult and I rode my race, he rode his race.
I think we rode a fair race and he just passed me on the line. So, I mean all I can say is I did everything I could within the guidelines of cycling. I think uh I did a fair sprint.
I could have closed the door more. Yes. Um I've been told that a million times.
But at the same time, like you say, if I close the door more and puts his hand up and says, "Ah, yeah, he closed the door on me and I get relegated to the back of the bunch." It's also >> or Phillips and gets hurt >> or crashes. Exactly.
Um, >> rolls reversed. Do you think he closes the barriers? >> That's a difficult one to answer, but I think we know the answer.
>> Yeah. I mean, I mean, a sprinter is a sprinter. No, I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't classify myself as a sprinter, but I know sprinters, they they sprint in a certain certain style, and that's not my style, but um yeah, I think um we've seen what sprinters do sometimes to win races, they're really brutal, and maybe I'm not brutal enough.
I don't know. >> Yeah, I remember chatting to Griel and he was just saying 16 years old, you just drumed into him as a sprinter. Close the barriers, close the barriers, no almost no matter what the consequences, you sprint to the barriers.
I don't think you can take that so literally anymore with the DQs being the the DQs and the impact it has on the Yeah, I get personally you want to win bike races. No one sprints for a second, but the UCI points do matter to the teams now. There's no there's no getting away from that.
Like we're seeing the way some teams are setting up, you know, I spoke to Vasilus on a stopless uh head of performance for Estana. They're not even setting up to win some bike races now. They're setting up to put three riders in the top 10 because there's so many points for that.
So, it's like, yeah, if you're a dirty sprinter, you've maybe have more chance there, but you also it's not much of a team move if you risk rolling the dice and getting DQed. Honestly, that's what for me is really killing cycling is these points because like you see in a lot of these teams now that don't have a guy that is a favorite to win each race. Their their goal now is to have as many in the top 10, which is for me it's destroying cycling.
I really am totally against it. I think you see so many teams now, not just Astana, but a lot of teams setting up their roster now to have as many as they can racing each other. And how does that make a team environment?
I mean, the team is becoming the the cycling is becoming like an individual sport now other than the team sport. I totally disagree with this 100%. It's it's destroying cycling.
Like you see, you're trying to make fans of cycling understand that it's a team sport, but then you see in a Finnish three sprinters from the same team sprinting against each other. So, how do you explain to non purist of cycling what they're actually doing? You say, "Okay, you're work you're working as a team, but why are you all sprinting against each other?
" >> As a fan, it makes no sense. Like, as a fan, >> and fans are ultimately what drive the sport because you think about, well, why is why is MAP involved? multiple maps and ball because they want to sell kit.
Who are they selling kit to? Fans. Like as a fan, me tuning into a race, I want to tune in to see the best bike riders in the world racing against each other.
I don't want to see a scenario where someone looks at a roster as you know, Estana still told me they'll look at a roster and basically or a calendar and go Tade, Remco, Yonas are going here, we're not going there, we're going over here. You want to see the best riders in the world against each other. But we're going to see a scenario really soon, maybe next season, where teams don't send their best riders to the Tour of France because you can pick up more points by going racing in Asia that week.
And it's like, who wants to see that? >> Well, I was actually told from from someone that I should focus on different races because winning those big races that I dream about is going to be too difficult. And for me that was like some of the most one of the most hurtful things that I could have been told was like why do I do the sport then?
My dream is to win San Remo. My dream is to win Fllanders and just because there's guys that are better than me on paper at the race. I shouldn't start.
I I totally disagree with this is not sport. I I want to be the best that I can be and win those dream races that I get up every morning and make myself motivated to to go training every day to try and achieve that goal. Maybe there's a guy better than me, but there's still a chance I can win.
No. >> And we tune in for this. Like we tune in like yeah I'm conflicted on the t thing because it's like obviously we're privileged to watch maybe the goat but it's also [ __ ] when you come home from a training ride and you're like I'll catch the last 50k of a race and it's a televised training ride for him riding home in stratanke on his own and you're like cool he's just gone solo again this is boring as [ __ ] but we tune in for those days when it's when Mahan pulls it off when it's like >> no one expected that.
Yeah, I mean like like you say, Tai's performance is phenomenal. It's it there's no real words to say like what he's actually doing to be able to do that to a Pelaton of the best riders in the world and ride away solo and stay away for 50k. It's amazing.
There's nothing you can say against that. But I think people also want to see racing. People want to see people fighting all the way to the finish and having a proper proper race all the way to the finish.
But so it's a bit on the fence of is it so is it good for cycling what is happening or is it bad for cycling actually what is happening because like you say with Aana they're not going to send their best guys to these big races because they're like I'd rather send our best riders to a different race where these guys aren't to score more points. Is that what cycling wants? >> A few weeks ago Angelo Poli of MPro joined us on an episode.
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Some of the biggest response we've had to a podcast all year. A lot of you reached out with DMs and questions and feedback. So MetPro on the back of this has joined us as a show sponsor.
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That's me tpo.co m. I'm going to leave that link in the description down below.
Look, it it's a [ __ ] model that needs to change. Like the UCI is a disaster in so many ways and this is definitely one of them. And it's it's almost like the culture of I see on social media some people want to pull TAD down now and it's like there's two ways to have the biggest building in town.
Like you can knock other people's buildings down so everyone has a small building. Or you can go you know what we're all going to build big buildings. There's plenty of sky room for all of us.
Like you would hope that other people respond to TAD like Yonas is going I'm going to go back to the lab. I'm going to go back and reinvent myself and I can beat him and he has beat him. He's not unbeatable.
Look Vanderpole San I try and do every year is try and build myself up to be better not just give up. I I try and be better myself. And I think uh a lot of guys have given up and let's say gone on to to TAD's team to to help him to achieve those goals even more.
That's how they're building this strong team. But >> for me personally, I I want to try and contest with these guys rather than being like, okay, I can't beat them. It is what it is.
But this time of the year is where you really try and figure out how you can get yourself to another level to try and compete with these guys. Because in the end for me, I've had a good career. I I could be happy, but I'm pushing my team to be better and better every year to try and support me to try and contest with these guys because in the end, you need a team to be able to support you to diverse these uh let's say freaks, >> X-Men.
>> Yeah, these guys. >> Does Ghana getting over the Pio with Vanderpole and Pogy? Does that give you a bit of hope?
>> Like when I look at that, I'd be like, [ __ ] Are we talking about this year? >> Yeah. Like I know he >> Yeah, for for me.
Yeah, it was a it was a impressive ride. >> I know he got back on. >> For me, I was maybe three wheels too far back and there was two two guys in front of me that dropped the wheel and by the time I went to try and pass them, the guys were were gone.
And as soon as you miss the wheel of these guys, it's it's an express train to the finish. So if you miss if you're not directly on Tad's wheel when he attacks, it's yeah, pretty much game over. And then everyone behind is looking at each other like, "Oh, who rides?
" And I was like, "Okay, I'll I'll ride and try and come back." But yeah, it was it was done. >> Like to give an idea of the power them boys are down.
Uh Ben Healey was on a few weeks ago and he was giving me his power data from uh Labradoot. Uh he rode I think 495 for four minutes and Tad put 15 seconds into him over the top. >> Yeah.
I mean the numbers don't make sense. And what weight's been here? 60 10 kg maybe 60 kg.
>> We we did a we did a ride before the world championships with with um and we did the cord ladone the the testing >> climb. Armstrong's old test. >> Armstrong and FYI and all the guys.
>> Never actually ridden them. Hope going to try and rent a bike and go ride tomorrow. >> It's a nice climb.
It's beautiful. Especially if the sun is out like it has been at the moment. It's beautiful.
But um we I think we did 1 hour pretty much a high zone 2, low zone three for 1 hour pretty much as hard as you can go and then he went and done his fastest time on Madon ever and basically blew up Straa. >> I mean how how is that possible? Like if guys are going to do a straa time, normally they cruise there.
>> Yeah. >> Maybe do some hit outs before just open up and then >> on it like someone else is carrying their winter coat. >> Exactly.
And he's just like I'm going to see if I can break this record. I I I started before so I had some different efforts and he's like oh just take a video if you can on I'm coming past and I was like took a video and on the video I was doing myself close to 400 and he just rode past me like he was doing a training ride but on the video maybe you saw it on social media you don't grasp exactly what you're witnessing like if if I look down at my power and see him riding past it's it's just mindb blowing going to see the speed that he can go up the hill and it looks effortless. Like it's just >> What time did he do bottom to top?
>> I don't know. He broke his own record by 45 seconds or something like this. >> What's it ballpark?
Like 25 minutes effort. >> I actually don't know. I'm I'm really bad with travel times, but it was 45 seconds quicker than he' done it before.
>> And he already had he already took it off Richie when Richie was priming to to win the tour to France. So >> you can imagine how fast it was. >> Yeah.
I think didn't Armstrong ride up that at 510 watts or something back in the day now. A good bit heavier than that, >> but so he's gone way under those times. >> Yeah.
And I guess the technology of the bikes, everything is uh helping a lot. But we >> tires probably been resurfaced about 10 times since then as well. >> Yeah.
Also depend on the wind direction, a lot of different different factors. But from from what I saw with my own eyes, I was just like, "Oh, wow. That was incredible.
>> What's the bits that amateurs watching this aren't doing that you guys are doing? It's like heat training piece, altitude training piece, is it nutrition? I know you said it's a little bit of everything, but what's the blind spots you think amateurs have?
Like if an amateur came to you, it's like I'm all in now on cycling. >> I would say consistency like with your diet, with with your sleeping, with your recovery, with training. I think a lot of guys they they go training and then they're like, "Oh, okay.
Now I'll go I'll go out for a drink with the guys in the afternoon and things like this." And it's just all for me, it's all the little small factors that go into the the big final picture is is the consistency I would say. Like for me myself, I know my afternoon after training, I'm not going out and meeting friends and doing thousand different things.
I I got my small little things I need to do, but that's it. That the rest is recovery. But I think for me just to put into one word is consistency.
I don't think there's any secrets. Like obviously there's all this stuff like heat training and all this [ __ ] >> Sorry. Um >> go across way.
It's the internet >> but I think these are all they're all nice but it's not the big it's not the big picture. It's heat training is not going to make you go from here to here. It's the consistency over years and time of doing the same thing and enjoying riding the bike.
Our sport is such a hard sport that if you're not enjoying what you're doing, you won't get the best out of yourself. I think it's maybe I'm a little bit old school, but it's it's the old school way of way of working all these little things where trying people are trying to give you this this and this. My coach also agrees.
He's like it's nice but it's a lot of it's not sustainable for a long time. Like you might be like, "Okay, I'll do this heat training stuff for a few weeks, but then you're sort of like, okay." Then you move on to the next thing and it's like a breathing exercise or this or this or this.
I'm maybe too old school with this, but I think training, eating, sleeping, recovery is is the the clear goal. >> It's a People always ask me this because we're on episode like 13 or 1400 or something on the podcast now, and everyone's like, "Oh, you know, you've chatted with Lemon to, you know, winners in today's era all the way through." was like, "What's the golden thread?
" And I'm like, "Always the same." Like, honestly, it's the really boring [ __ ] done repeatedly for it's the really sustainable stuff. >> Yeah.
>> Done for really almost unsustainable periods of time. Just like >> a decade. >> Yeah.
>> Of compounding. >> Yeah. >> Obviously, you have to start with the talent.
If the talent is there, then you can work. >> That's the entry point nearly for the world tour. Of course, that's that's the entry point.
But from there, it's just the consistency. >> And when you look at NeoPros coming through and this new era, you know, everyone's talking about the the decay of the like the Patreon and the Pelaton and the hierarchal structure. It's do you see these kids coming in super hungry and then fading away or do you think they'll be able to born with that level of intensity through a career like you've had?
Well, I think now nowadays, like for me, when I was their age, let's say, I didn't have power meter. I didn't have heart rate monitor. I didn't have a nutritionist.
I didn't have a a coach calling me every day, checking training peaks, all this. So, it's totally different times where I got all these things as a world tour rider. So, for me, it was a real stepping stone to working my way up to doing an altitude training camp.
I did my first altitude training camp when I was third or fourth year professional where kids now before they're in World Tour riders, they're doing proper altitude camps with nutritionists, with everything, all the boxes ticked. So, I think for the kids coming into World Tour these days, it's there's nothing really extra exciting because you already have everything. You have a world tour bike as a as a conte rider.
You have the same kit as the World Tour riders. I mean, what's exciting for them these days when you have these feeder teams where they have buses going to a going to a under 23 race where they have all the same stuff that we have? I think for me that was the most exciting that it was all completely different to what I had.
Like my coach at the 23s, we didn't have race wheels unless it was a world championship. We couldn't have caffeine in a race unless it was a world championship. So, I believe and my coach also believes with his younger athletes that he works with is take away all that stuff when you're a junior and only give it to the riders at those really key races, not using it all the time because once you do get to that level, then what if you've already had it your whole career already?
>> I couldn't agree more. I talked to a friend about this only last week on the club spin. every like we're on a club spin two weeks ago like it's just a you know our podcast club spin in Dublin and you know it's three hours pretty bad weather everybody's on carbon wheels disc brakes carbon wheels I'm like I remember you'd have it in the in your your wheel bag your padded wheel bag and it wouldn't even be for racing it'd be for your like priority races I'd pull out like I'd be running my training wheels for like 60 70% and my like absolute shitkicker Mavic Asium 100 euro wheels for training.
Then you might have a slightly nicer set of aluminium wheels for racing, but then for the good races, you'd pull out the carbon wheels. But it felt special. It was like going to the nightclub and you're sticking on like your nice shoes, your nice shirts.
I'm going to get lucky tonight. I'm feeling good. I mean, what what do they have to look forward to?
I mean, this for me is the hardest thing because, okay, they come into the world tour with everything they already have where you get you sign a world tour contract. Then what? You have the money, you have the pressure, but are you ready for that or was it too easy?
>> Yeah. When when are we going to see the first I'm trying to think of who I talked to him? Might have been I think it was one of the Aussies.
I think it was Mah maybe. Uh about him saying, "I'm happy when I got out of the sport because I can see where it was going." He could see the altitude camps coming.
and he's his takeway I don't want to misquote Matt because maybe it wasn't Matt so many conversations they blend into each other but the take away from whoever it was I think they were finishing up a team sky and they were like it's going to become a young man's game because it's just not sustainable to be away from family for multiple altitude camps through the year and you're going to get guys just go nah can't do this if I'm not 25 >> well I think I can only speak for myself personally but for me I love those training camps I love going to altitude for me it's like holidays I consider at like holidays. So for some guys that's like their kryptonite is going to a altitude camp. So I think it's more your head space that you're in going to these camps where we were privileged enough to buy apartment in the mountains like so we go there with my family in Lvinho.
ah much >> we love we love Levvino and we go we we used to go there for for years before we actually bought our own place and now going to Lvinho two times in the year for 3 weeks at a time it's like holidays >> but do you bring the family >> they they are there they stay in my apartment but I normally stay at the top so we are separated but it's still a camp let's say I can still see them so it's not uh that's not a big issue but I think you need to sort of enjoy that time too Because if you're at a camp that you don't want to be at, but then you're preparing for a race, you already got the wrong mindset when you're finishing the camp going to the race because you're already mentally drained thinking, "Oh, I got to be at this camp for 3 weeks. Oh, I don't really want to be here. I'd rather be at home.
" Then you're probably better off just staying at home because you're going to get less out of it than actually enjoying what you're doing. So for me, I try and spin it that it's actually you get to go to the mountains and ride your bike. Like what what better in life can you actually have?
a great attitude for >> and you're getting paid to do it. I mean what's what what is a better job in life to do this >> because we still understand so little about the it was actually conversation with Matthew Moric about this and it was like the goal is not to get do training the goal is to get an adaptation from the trainer so it's not just to go on to your vector your training peaks and make boxes go green it's like it's to get better at racing your bike it's to get faster but training doesn't make you stronger training gives you the possibility to get stronger and realize that possibility with recovery, with being in a good headsp space, but that takes a real maturity, I think, like what you were saying there, to say, actually, you know, if the altitude camp's stressing me out this much, I'd actually be better off staying at home because when this all nets out, maybe I'm faster actually being at home. But with team, you're one of the most decorated riders in the pelaton.
one stage is all three grand tours, you know, he spend the rest of your day listening near Palmarez. Is that a latitude that's granted to you when maybe a younger writer coming in wouldn't have that ability to say I want to opt in or out of this? >> I think it just depends on the individual.
I think uh it for me for me it's something that I mean I love the mountains. So for me going somewhere for a training camp away from home like I do in February we go to Teneref. I mean, I I I don't see I don't see why people don't like to do this, let's say.
I mean, I guess I live I live my my home now is in the opposite side of the world to where I'm from from Australia. I mean, I live in Europe. So, for me, maybe it's easier to be away from home more because I'm constantly away from home from Australia.
So, I'm I'm only speaking from my behalf. But other guys that that are from Europe that live in Europe all the time, they have to be away. Maybe it's harder for them because they're not used to it as much as what Australians, for example, have to sacrifice to to be a professional cyclist in the first place.
So we have to give away our whole life in Australia and come and live in Europe to do the sport that we love to do. So for me, that's already making the sacrifice to be here. So it's like I want to try and maximize everything I can and enjoy the the ride that I'm on.
I mean, how many guys from Australia get this opportunity to to live in Europe and go and do a 3-we training camp in some of the coolest places in the world? Like, if I talk to my mates back in Australia, they're like, you're like living our dream, basically. And sort of hearing that sometimes is like another reassuring feeling that yeah, it actually is super cool that what I get to do every single day and still enjoying it at the same time where maybe for the Europeans it's a bit less for them because they at home all the time with their normal friends where >> all my normal friends are back in Australia.
>> How much of a bang do you get off the altitude camp? Do you get do you notice a big improvement physiology wise from it? I personally do, but it's very individual.
I think not not every athlete goes to altitude and performs better afterwards. It's based on the your individual uh physique. But for me, I need like one week completely easy at altitude and then I start to build into it where some guys go for two weeks and they're just training full gas straight away.
Everyone has their different ideas, but I know for myself I need I need the adaption phase because I really struggle a lot at altitude when I first get there. So, >> what's your protocol for it? You sleep high and train high.
>> Yeah. I I tried this sleep high, train low situation. It didn't work for me, but I need I need to train high and sleep high.
Yeah. >> And you just cruise like 200 watts for the first week. >> Yeah.
Even less. Even less. >> So, you're just rolling around.
>> Yeah. Yeah. basically just just adapting.
>> And second week you allow intervals in. >> Second week is normally endurance. So I'll do like longer days and then the last week is normally the the efforts.
>> And is that like you think three weeks is the like minimum dose >> of hours you mean? Or >> altitude to get there like you know guys won't plug in for like a week or two. It always seems to be three week camps.
>> Mine always needs to be three weeks. Yeah. But it's it's different with different guys.
They've they've came with multiple different ideas of what's what works for them, but for me, 3 weeks is the is the is the normal? Yeah. >> How how much longer have you got in this game?
You think you're with Jacob? Have you signed true for 2027? >> Yeah.
>> You think you'll go beyond? >> That's a good question. Um I think I'll do it as long as I love it.
Yeah. >> I think um the sport is >> I think you could be like Manabo here. Like he's resigned again.
us uh resigned for is he 52 or something now and he's resigned for a >> Chinese team I think for next season. >> I'm not going that far. >> You're like as long as I love it.
>> I was I was thinking more like uh yeah late late 30s not uh not into my 50s that's for sure. >> But no, I think this the sport now is at such a high level and I think if you're not competitive then it's not enjoyable. It's you're just getting your ass kicked and being a number in the pelaton.
I think if I can do well tick, let's say tick the goals that I I dream about every day and then move on to a more let's say support role to to help the young guys support them to to achieve their dreams. That's something I >> You think you need to change as a writer? Like does is the career path start out sprinter become kind of a puncher now you're morphing into more maybe of a in two years time do you have to become like a a lead out guy someone who's positioning you do you think that's a you need to reinvent yourself almost to keep going?
No, I mean I I can I I can already do that now. Like I think uh we've had some sprinters that I've been able to to lead out when it was more of a flat sprint and I was I was leading them out, for example. And I mean, I think I have a quite a good feeling for what the sprinter needs because I've been in that role for a lot of years.
So I know exactly what the guy behind me know wants, let's say. Um so I think I can fall into that role quite quite easily. And also just positioning in the Pelaton in the classics through the Grand Tours, I think naturally I'm quite good at.
So even even doing that for for a GC rider or in the classics, for example, if we got a young gun coming through when I'm not at my level anymore, I would love to to fall into. Yeah. >> What makes you good a positioner?
>> I'm not sure. I'm not sure if it's bike handling or just like a natural natural feel for the fellow for the Pelaton. I don't know.
I I think it's it's something I can't really explain to people because I sort of say to people like, "Oh, yeah, just just be there." >> Yeah. >> And a lot of people just don't uh they're like, "Yeah, we're trying.
" But it's not we don't have that same sort of feeling like you do, which I'm not saying I'm perfect. I I also miss a lot of a lot of things, too. But I think naturally I'm quite >> You do pop up at the right like whether you always have the legs or not is different.
But you do pop up at the right place a lot of the time. >> Yeah. I think that's something that's like we were saying before the podcast started with the with Alberte for example.
He was one of those guys that he probably didn't have the most crazy numbers but he was so efficient in the Pelaton and saving a lot of energy where he needed to and using it where he also needed to. >> Is it like frustrating trying to explain it to a teammate who doesn't get it and you're just because it seems to come so naturally to you like just just be there like what what are you doing? >> It is quite frustrating um also for them too you know because they want to be there.
they have every every um dream to be in the right position at the right time, but at the same time it's for for some people it's just not possible. Then maybe they see the factors of of crashing of of different things going on, but I guess after a while you just sort of block that out and sort of find the little gaps and go through. >> Yeah.
Some riders just seem magnetized to crashes and other riders just they can't go down. It's like whatever they're on rails. Like we we talked about Sagan like there's some wild crashes around >> Sagan >> and he just come through and you're like everyone in front of him, everyone beside him and everyone behind him went down and he somehow managed to come true.
>> Yeah, he he had some uh something above him watching over him for a lot of his years. That's for sure. But I mean his bike skills were also mega.
I mean I think everything happened to him in slow motion, you know, like >> sees a crash in front of him and he'll jump over them or something, you know, like >> it's pretty impressive to see what he was able to do on the bike. But yeah, I think he uh he did have some watching over him for a few times there in his career. That's for sure.
>> Someone asked me this the other day. I didn't have a good answer for it. Peak Saigon or peak Vanderpole.
>> It would be a nice battle to watch. That's for sure. I think um the fans the fan for the fans of sport that would be um that would be pretty cool to see.
>> Yeah, I wouldn't pick >> I don't know who >> I would pick Sagon just with the the worlds. Yeah, I mean three-time world champion. It sort of trumps trumps a lot of things, but yeah, Vanderpool is also Yeah.
How many times he won Fanders? Three times. Two times.
San Remo where Sagun never won. San Remo. >> What's Rup?
Is he on Rub? Yeah, also. Sagan won once or twice.
>> Twice, I think. >> Twice. >> Yeah.
>> We could go on forever with this, but yeah, I think it would be a good race. That's for sure. I think that's what everyone want to see.
H you have bad I remember messaging you during the year the health concerns and it wasn't entirely clear if you were gone out of sport. What was going on with that was like a pulmonary embolism. >> Yeah, it was quite quite vague because we honestly didn't know what was really going on either and I was sort of like a bit scared from my health because yeah, obviously my health comes first before the sport.
So, we were quite vague to put out what's what was actually going on because we didn't know ourselves. And I mean, I was preparing for the tour to France in Altitude in uh Levino. And um I thought it was some cuz I I struggle a lot with asthma um with allergies of uh um what's the stuff the pollen >> and dust and during that training camp there's the the season was changing and a lot of pollen in the air and a lot of dust because it was quite windy.
So, I was really struggling with my breathing and I just got more and more into my camp and normally I get better and better as the camp goes on because I'm getting more immune to the altitude and I was honestly just getting worse and worse and I was just like my legs didn't feel bad. My legs felt good but I just couldn't breathe. like doing this interview now, I would be like really like huffing and puffing and uh I got to my last effort of of the training camp and I could do one out of the three that I can normally do quite quite easily and my coach was like, "Okay, do one and then we'll see.
" And then we sort of finished the first one and I was like, he was on one of the hair pins of the climb and I said to him like, "Mate, I can't breathe." And he's just like, "Oh, maybe just just keep pushing and see if you can continue to the top." And I was like, "All right.
" All right. So, I continued and got it done and I stopped him on the way down and I was like, "Mate, something's something's up. Like, this is not normal.
This is not my breathing level." >> Yeah. It's not like fatigue.
>> It's not Yeah. It's not me not wanting to do the efforts cuz he was thinking maybe I just bit CBF, you know, like just didn't didn't really want to be there. And I was like, "No, this is not normal.
" And he's like, "Ah, you know what? Let's call it let's just call it a day. We'll go and go for a walk in the town, have a coffee, like clear the head.
" cuz he I think he was thinking it was my head that I just couldn't be couldn't be um bothered doing it. >> Anyway, we're walking around town and during the efforts dial back a bit. During the efforts, I couldn't get my heart rate above like 120.
I was like, "What is happening?" Like it just Yeah. I was doing 4 470 for for 10 minutes and just couldn't get my heart rate above 120.
>> I was like, "This is super weird." Like, I'm either too fresh or completely dead. like, "But it doesn't make sense if I can still push the power.
" >> Yeah. >> And uh we're walking around town and I was just checking my heart rate and it was like 140 walking around town. So I called my doctor.
I was like, "Mate, something's up here." He's like, "Oh, can you go and get a blood test?" Blah blah blah.
I'm like, "Mate, it's not a blood test. Like, this is something this is something serious." It was actually my wife was like, "Get in the car now.
Drive across to Switzerland. There's a really good hospital just next to Samaritz and um get checked on what's going on." cuz she's like, "This is not this is not normal.
" And um went into the emergency with my coach. He was with me. And uh they're like, "Yeah, what's up?
" And I was like, "I just can't breathe. Like I'm I'm an athlete. I'm here doing this.
" I I made him explain my whole situation of my normal training camp, let's say. And um they were like, "Okay, let's go and let's do a blood test first." We did a blood test in my vein, then in the in the wrist.
What's that one called? I always forget what it's called. >> Yeah, I don't know either.
>> It's like in into here they did another blood test and straight away they got the results and they're like, "Well, you got to come with us. We can see there's blood clots in your blood." And I was like, "Oh, okay.
That's what I'm feeling, you know." So, they've taken me to do a CT scan of my lungs. And they're like, "It's going to be pretty scary.
" >> Yeah. You're staying with us. And I was like, "Oh, no.
" I was like I didn't know if I was going to die that day, if I was like going to be fine, if I could race again, if I could even be some sort of athlete or if my career was done or anything, you know. So, yeah, it was like 1:00 in the morning and my coach was like, "Do you want me to stay or do I head back to the vigno?" And I was like, "All right, just head back to the vine.
I'll update you what's going on." So, I slept with all these monitors all over my body monitoring me all night. And um they were like, "Yeah, you're going to have to stay here for a couple of days because we need to do all these different checks.
" And I was like, "Well, I have a really good like team of doctors in my team and we have a a clinic in in Milan where I would like to have all them with me to understand the situation." So I checked out after 2 days and uh drove down to in a taxi drove down to to Milan and met all my team doctors and everything there and and Brent Copeland our our GM of the team and they were super supportive which was which was really nice and yeah they sort of did all the checks everything they're like yeah this is this is not good like you have blood clots all through your lungs and they were sort of like okay we got to start this process of blood thinners everything to um to get rid of these blood clots. But we need to do checks of why it started because I mean you're a 34 year old professional athlete that doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, doesn't do any of these these factors that could cause something like this.
And they were like, did you do a long travel? Were you sitting for a long time? All these different things.
And I was like, no, I'm training every day. I'm I'm in one hotel in mountains training on my bike every day. There's no things that can sort of bring on this.
And they did all different checks of my complete body like where it could have come from or started. And they basically said if I trained for another 2 days the way I was training the blood clots would have gone to my brain and I would have died. >> [ __ ] hell.
>> So yeah, long story short, I'm very lucky that my wife sent me to the hospital there in um >> has it cleared up? >> So basically it was 3 months of blood thinners and already after one month the blood clots were all gone. But it was the whole process takes three months so it doesn't come back.
So now I we did checks after the after the three months and the co the team was like if you don't want to train in this 3 months while you're taking the blood thinners we're 100% fine with that. We just want you to come back healthy. But I said honestly if if it's if it's not a problem to train if I'm not doing myself any health damage I would like to train because I would still like to continue the season if it's possible.
And they said, "Yeah, well, there's no more damage you can do to yourself while you're taking the blood thinners unless you crash really badly where you bleed out." Exactly. So, they're like, "Just take extra care while you're training, but >> stay away from your dangerous training partners.
" >> Yeah. Just just just be careful. So, I mean, yeah, we we had my wife following me in the car a lot of the days just to support me a little bit with cars behind and everything.
So, that was quite cool. We got to spend a bit more time together and we went and saw some different uh different things which was we tried to find the positives in the situation. >> It's pretty cool.
>> Yeah. >> Coffee stop mid ride. >> Yeah.
We did actually a 5day sort of training camp. We drove to um Swiss and we rode to some like different hotels like dayto-day. >> Okay.
Little mini bike parking. >> Yeah, exactly. Where she followed me in the car with the suitcases and we went from hotel to hotel.
So that was actually a pretty cool idea. >> Yeah. We've always talked about doing it and we just didn't have time.
But now we were like my daughter was on holidays so she went to my wife's parents to for holidays and then we did this. So >> I I was pretty surprised to see you back in the same season. I was like because of the timing of it.
I was like uh sounds bad. Most likely if he gets back it's next season. >> That's what everyone was thinking.
Yeah. Even my team was thinking the same. They were like for us if you want to just end the season and come back next year it's fine with us.
But I said, "Sorry, but the only thing that gets me motivated to get through the day is to come back and do do what I love to do, which is bike racing." >> And you're magnetized to them Canadian Classics. >> Yes.
Yes. Even though I completely screwed it up this year, but um yeah, I I totally wrecked my average. >> How many times have you won out there?
>> I've won three times Quebec and just once Montreal. >> They're going to build a statue of you in Quebec. >> Yeah, would be nice.
>> I hate that circuit as well. I raced that the in tour of boats Canadian race out there and circuit's so hard but there's something about that circuit that's obviously physiologically super well matched to you whatever the short efforts are the position into the corners the wee bit of positioning on the descent it just matches your physiology maybe better than anyone else in the pelaton >> yeah I I just love the racing there I mean for me I can go there it's it's English okay a little bit French but it's English I feel like I'm at home when I'm racing there it's similar to Australia similar of people the circuit itself with an uphill finish with a steep uh climb before that. I mean like you say if if someone wanted to build a course for me that that would basically be it.
So I'm lucky that I have a course on the calendar that suits me pretty much 110%. But now this year I completely messed it up. So every rider chases that feeling.
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Parley cycles engineered for that feeling that keeps us coming back. >> Tour to France last stage if they go with Matra again's not a bad stage for you. >> Yeah, I mean this year before my problems I was really looking forward to it.
When I saw it in the rain, yeah, not so much but hopefully in the dry I'm really looking forward to it. >> Have they announced that they're going to keep it or >> Yeah, I think so. >> They It was pretty I was pretty skeptical to be honest.
I was like >> Yeah, I think this year it was a bit sort of downplayed because of the weather. I think uh more guys will be more interested if the if the weather is good and it's like a bit more safe for for more guys to race but um yeah I think with what happened this year it was bit controversial I would say where guys were like okay what a [ __ ] way to finish the tour to France and they love the shams sort of style but I think the fans want to see a proper race and I think that's a great example after the Olympics how much of a success that that course was I think it makes sense >> and then you get the mod man like Maharajir's interview after. >> No.
>> Today we go to the podium or the hospital. >> Oh [ __ ] >> He's like I say to the guys full risk. Hey.
>> Yeah. He's he's the type of guy that would say that actually. I probably should have predicted that.
But um No, it did look quite hectic. I mean it's it was nice to watch it on TV for sure. I mean you like you want to see the guys racing and stuff but at the same time I know myself if I was there Yeah.
It was a little bit sketchy. I mean that's those roads are so slippery. >> You're a regular bike handler.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean you're not necessarily worried about yourself. You're more worried about people crashing in front of you.
Yeah, >> it's that's probably more the scare factor of it all. I mean, even for the Olympics last year, it was dry and the roads were quite slippery. So, I can't imagine how slippery it was in the wet.
>> It's Yeah, Maric, he's full on in that risk mode like the San Ramo descent off the Pio a few years ago. The dropper post >> was ban. Who's the best descender of the bunch?
Is he up there or is he just mad? >> I think um what's his name? Pcock for me probably is the best.
>> Yeah, he looks pretty. >> He's Yeah, I mean also Vanderpool is is pretty impressive too. But I would say probably probably stand out probably Pitcock.
Yeah. >> Yeah. That descent >> was Abda was >> Yeah, the Atom >> Fi's third I think that day.
Was it Louis MZ or something second >> from the break? >> Yeah. Off the Gibby was Peacock's descent.
That's a scary descent as well. M but actually I was speaking to Tad about that descent and Tad said he did exactly pretty much exactly the same time as Pitcock down that descent. >> Yeah.
See that's what I never know cuz it's just like you know some lads have a bit of a flare for the >> you know you see it in Cyclross. Some lads have a bit of a flare for the tail whip and it's like it doesn't mean you're going any faster cuz you do tail whip. >> Sure.
Yeah. >> Yeah. I was I was thinking about that when now that I say it.
I remember it actually. Told me I was like, "Yeah, how how quick was he down that descent?" And he's like, "Yeah, I was pretty much exactly the same time.
" But it looked really cool because Pigcock was passing people and like >> it was all on TV. So that was quite cool. But >> when you pan back to the pelaton of I think Tad attacked Vingard at top there um over the top of that climb going into the descent, didn't he?
>> And then he was like getting away from uh from from them. But yeah, that wasn't so much televised as what Peacock was doing. So, uh, 2017, you won a green jersey in the store.
You seemed kind of destined to be that green jersey dude. Then I remember watching that thinking this could be the start of the bling matches green jersey run here. And then I don't know if it's like you started focusing more on stages, more helping a little bit around the team or the green jersey competition slightly changed.
No, I I wanted to go for it again, but the team changed the what they wanted to achieve, which we had Dumalan in the team and they wanted to go for the yellow jersey. So, that was the full focus there was to go for the yellow jersey the year after. So, I got I got my shot to go for the green and I won it and they were like, "Okay, you've won your jersey now.
We we we work on winning the tour with with uh Dumalan." >> You still seem quite well set up to go for green like >> Yeah, just with less support. I mean, I I wanted to go for it and they sort of give me a Yeah.
Okay. Was a bit controversial. They didn't want me to go for it, but I was still going for it.
But >> this was 2017. >> No, 2018. >> Oh, 2018.
>> Yeah. I mean, 2017, I had full support to go with it. They they built a team around me to support me.
That was 100% the goal. Um, Warren's polka dot jersey was not the plan, but he was climbing so well and riding so well that he was able to achieve that with a bit of support from me from the breakaways and stuff that I was scoring my points, but he yeah, he was amazing that year. So, that was not really the plan, but uh he we managed to get two jerseys, which was amazing.
But in 2018, that the plan was to go fully for for Tom for the for the yellow. >> Big Tommy D. You think you could win green again >> now?
>> Yeah. I still believe it, but it depends if the team also backs it. I believe I'm still vers versatile enough to, especially with the races now.
There's not so many fewer sprints, let's say. Um, but yeah, it depends what uh what the team wants to. >> Have you sat down for your 2026 planning session where you kind of say, "Here's my objectives for >> We've had the pre-hat, let's say, but um I think the the more clear one is the one we have in Yeah.
December. And you got have you got in your mind yet that you're like that's what's getting me out the door? >> Yeah, the green one is difficult because yeah, it's like the yellow.
You need to have a full to full team supporting you to go for it. And if you if you don't win it, let's say you could end up with nothing like going for the yellow jersey for example. So >> I mean you also need to have guys that can let's say win from different scenarios from breakaways or a climbing guy or something like this.
So, I understand for a team it's it's quite difficult to to back 100% for for a green jersey when you're not a pure sprinter. Um, but it would be cool to go for it again for sure. >> Any wild predictions for the 2026 season >> predictions?
Can you pull off San Ramo? >> I hope so. I really hope so.
I mean, it's one one race. >> I'd love to see you win San Ram. >> Thank you.
>> I would love to see you win. Just it'd be cool. >> Yeah.
It's one race that's just been playing with my mind for so many years and it would be nice to have it on my palaras, that's for sure. But in the end, if if I don't, it's I'm it's not going to be the end of the world. But I know for for myself personally, it's not just ticking a box.
It's it's more on a more personal level. It's the roads that I do every single day and the history of the race, the the the passion behind the fans in that race. It's It must be such an amazing feeling to to cross that finish line first in the V Roma there.
But >> what's a bigger problem to solve? The tattoo one or the Vanderpool one? >> I think they're both a big problem >> cuz they're such a different problem as well, aren't they?
>> They are. I mean, Vanderpool's still fast in the finish. >> So fast in the finish.
>> So it's like Yeah. I mean, it would be a very close sprint between us two even if we did come together. So it's >> and it changes the dynamic cuz now is it like who's claw and pogy if he hits he's not waiting.
>> I mean Vanderpool is never a guy that that is not willing to ride. He he's always he'll never be like oh I'm not going to ride cuz cuz Tad's up the road. He'll be he's he's he's a guy that he's a full racer.
He he will commit 100%. He's not there to ride second or third. He's that's why I respect a lot about Matu is he's he's never holding back to to save himself or something.
He's full guess. >> I love that. Fred Wright was telling me that Flanders, he was in the early break a couple of years ago, you know, the kind of Fred break for the day.
>> Mhm. >> And then the big favorites new came across with Vanderpole and Pogy in it and he held on to the back of the Cold Tales for a while, but he said it was just like >> like almost humiliating. Like when you're get the C one and you're catching the C fours in a race and there's like a C four sitting on the back end.
It's like don't even bother with him like around. He's like >> they didn't ask me to come through. They didn't even try to take me out the back.
He's like they just rode and then just rode away from you and it's like that was humiliating. >> I think it's also one of those things. It's a mental game too.
Like when you everyone's completely on their hands and knees and in say in that for that example for that that situation for example where he didn't actually even recognize that Fred was there is such a mental game that you're like he doesn't even care that I'm here so he doesn't even consider me as a factor. So you're already like your mind is like blown. No.
But if he was like okay Fred come through. Maybe you're like okay maybe he he does he does feel like I'm a bit of a threat. But I feel like it's a bit of a mental game they play too that it's like I'm not even going to look at you because I don't even consider you a threat.
>> Yeah. >> Don't you think? >> I do think with the head games that I think >> for sure >> T definitely plays the head games like we've seen him >> going into every race all the straa times and not not just T all the guys even does the same.
Vanderpool uh Vanderpool does the same W does the same. All those guys, I think they they use that as extra like boost for themselves, but also to show the other guys like I'm flying. >> Yeah.
And it's like the the 5k 10k run times you start seeing going up on Straa in the offse. It's like, >> do you know Vanderpole? Oh, just out for a little jog at 310 kilometer pace.
You're like, >> that's phenomenal, isn't it? >> Yeah. It's But it's like I could I'm going to stick one of these.
We're going to try and full gas for a year and then stick. Oh, just out for a little jog in my super shoes. >> Just a recovery >> 3 minute 10 pace.
>> I don't have any idea what it's meant. Pick up a real fast one a few years ago. >> Yeah, I was speaking to a a triathlete about this the other day, but um I I I don't know if it was um a bit of a glitch in the system or not.
>> That's what I heard as well. One of my friends, a runner. He said, >> "I don't know enough about it to actually comment to be honest.
I'm not a runner, so I wouldn't uh I wouldn't know. I like to run, but I wouldn't know what a 310 or whatever that feels like because I've never been close to it. So, >> yeah, it's like even going out, you know, you throw in an odd 4 minute kmter pace and I can't even imagine going that feels like a full sprint to me.
>> Oh, I I I can jog along at like 5 minute pace and I'm like, okay, this is quite good. I can I can sustain this, but anything faster, I feel like I'm probably going to do some more damage to myself than good. >> Yeah, I heard Matteo Jorgensson talking about uh he can't even jog.
He reckons it take him a year to build up to a jog. He saw an Atletic. Oh wow.
>> He said he thinks he needs a full year training program to get to the point where he can even jog. >> Okay. >> Interesting.
>> That's bad, bro. You need to do >> Yeah, that's that might be a problem. >> You might need to look at that if cycling doesn't work out.
>> Yeah, you might need to see someone about that. >> H Bling, appreciate you driving down here. Uh short notice.
Got it done. Uh we'll go for round three next time. >> Yeah.
In your crib in Monaco. >> Let me know.