There are five main bike fit mistakes that cyclists make, but the good news is all five of them are totally fixable. Today I sit down with Phil Bert, former Team Sky and GB bike fitter who's fitted some of the best riders in the world. Bradley Wiggins, Victoria Pendleton, Grant Thomas.
We get into crank length, back pain, saddle comfort, simple changes that can make you faster, more comfortable, and more efficient on the bike. Welcome to the podcast, Phil Bert. Philbert, the bike fit guru.
I've got a question today around crank lengths. The trend seems to be shorter on crank lengths. The challenge for crank lengths is it's not buying a new saddle or buying a new stem.
It's very expensive. So if I'm on the fence and I've been riding like 175 172 >> y >> like I'm not saying sell this to me, but how do I know if the investments of like what's it,000 euro or something for the set of cranks now? Something like that.
Like they're expensive. How do I know it's the right move to make? That's a really good question.
Um I I'm so I don't think it's expensive of that all the time. If you got power meter on, it's carbon fiber. Yeah.
And high end, but for some people it's a lot lower cost. I would say crank length is worth investing in because it a lot of people I see will be setting up their bike. Their position is wrong is set up correctly for the wrong crank length if that makes sense.
Let me explain myself there. If you've got the wrong crank length on, you're closing up your hips, right? Let me talk to you as a physio.
Our hips are the first thing that wear out in our body, right? And they're fundamentally very very important in cycling position. If you got too long a crank on there, you're going to have to sit further back.
You're going to have to sit more upright. Then your saddle changes and your position changes and your performance changes. All right?
And when you're in that position, you can't produce power. So I think crank length makes a demonstrative difference to not only performance in terms of power production, but comfort. It it lowers asymmetry.
You know, if you're going on a 190, if I put you on a 190 stem, I'll see more asymmetry than if you're on 160. So the analogy I quite often use is that you there's two ducks in on a pond and one of the ducks is going like this and the other ducks like this. Guess which one's more stable and comfortable and think about producing power.
It's the one there. I think crank length for whatever reason has been fundamentally wrong for a long period of time and now we have so much more adaptability. That's why it's changing and that's why you know the world's best cyclist is running 165.
We've been manipulating for years for arrow reasons because error positions, we close up the hip from the top because you're much more lower at the front and then we have to give that range back to the hip. But for the ordinary man of person, if I had to first thing I would do and um we we've been out in the real world now for eight years, >> I would go crank length first every time because I'm fixing everything else around it if I don't get the crank length right. Yeah.
>> And if you think about it, you think ah yeah someone's like they say what you're going to drop me from 170 to 165, right? 5 mil makes a right 90 RPM that's 45 times a minute your hip closes. It's a very small change but makes a demonstrative difference to how comfortable and how easy you can feel.
All right. >> How big a difference can we quantify it? Do we know is it going to be am I making a 10 watt gain a 20 watt gain?
>> So all I can tell is what people come back to me after I fitted them. You know it's a harder thing. We used to manipulate it for error reasons at BC and Sky.
So we want to be in the most error position and definitely crank length will facilitate you being able to hold the arrow position being wrong in terms of power production. People just regularly I think you're if you're riding the wrong crank it's like driving around with a handbrake on you. It's literally limited.
So people say I really struggle my coach says to if you hear these three things they say I really struggle to keep a high cadence. I can't get my cadence size because basically if the crank length's too long for you, it's slowing you up for a top dead center because your hip gets closed, it doesn't like it and it slows you down. So if you're one of the people out there who feel like I don't, no matter how what I try, I can't get my crank my cadence up.
Smaller cranks is almost certainly right. But then marrying it with the right positional changes. So if your saddle height's right, what crank length gives you the opportunity when you drop it is to get higher and further forward, you know, and over the bottom bracket.
Now, what that does, the reason why I think it produces more power, and people regularly come back to me, and hopefully you I don't you didn't do, but uh I have people come back and say, "I just broken all my straa records, and all we did was change their crank length." And that's not me making them stronger. It's them being able to get the biggest strongest muscle, which is your glutes, into the game.
If you're sitting too low and far back, which you have to do if you've got the wrong crank length on because it will just you can't get up and above it. But all of a sudden, so the analogy I often use, Anthony, sorry to go on, is like if I you stand there and I say, "Stamp on my hand over here." Yeah.
You'll hurt it, but you're not going to break it. If I come over there and let you stand up, put my hand directly underneath your heel. You stand on it, you'll probably break it.
Yeah. That's cuz that muscle's in the game. And that is pedaling, right?
When British cycling, we used to do a test. It's like to find sprinters best position. It's just like keep putting the saddle up, keep pulling it forward until you find the most st because saddle height and forward is where power is.
The limiting factor in getting there is crank length. >> So if I'm buying a new bike, for sure it makes sense listening to you. Like I got a new group set and I was like planning to get a new bike, new group set.
So I was like, "Okay, I'm going to go 165s." I guess it's the person that's on the fence that's like has a 172 and they're like, "Oh, is this worth the switch?" How would you think about like a a mental model for them understanding if it's worth the switch?
Like cadence is that like a test if you're struggling with cadence, would that be one of the things you look for? Yeah, but um I think if you if you get any low back pain, if you feel like you rock on the bike, if you get if you have suffer from a asymmetrical issues, if you have any sort of knee pain because the kinematic distance by dropping crank length, say from 170 to 165, you just the amount of loading that's not going through the hip and knee that was going there before, but is in a much more comfortable range for you to handle. All those things I think.
So I view crank length about, you know, my philosophy on bike fit is there is no one ideal position. You came in here today and I went that is good and but we could we could change it. There's a window.
There's a box around yourself. There's a box around that window gets smaller. People are if you're 16 you can jump on anything and luckily Anthony even though you're in your 40s now you jump on anything and make it work.
All right. But that window starts to change and it starts to get smaller as we get older just because of the wear and tear in the body. If you drop crank length 5 mil the window gets bigger.
>> Okay. >> So I would say anybody who's if you're like I've ridden 172. I don't know any reason to put someone on a longer crank.
Put it that way. I definitely can give you 10 reasons that will to give one someone to drop crank length. >> I would caveat that with making sure that they hoover up the opportunity it presents and getting their position really good on top of that.
>> Okay, I'm convinced. >> I want to go a slightly different direction. Um, durability is kind of a buzzword around cycling for the last few years and durability in a a training sense is my ability to produce power in the first hour versus my ability to produce power in the last hour, how much of a drop off I'm having.
>> Do you think there's a durability component to bike fit as well? Even if I have a good bike fit, like you're talking about there's a range. So, I could be in this, I could be at one end of the range, >> but I start to experience problems in hour four, hour five, hour six.
Is it worth thinking about manipulating that range? And like me coming in today, like we had our initial assessment and I was like, I actually don't think I have any problems, but yet we still made some changes. So I've gone from hopefully one side of the range to the other side of the range.
Do we have a way of measuring the effectiveness of bike change in our four, five, six? >> Only how you feel in that because you're absolutely right. We won't be here.
It won't be measured in there. But the durability of fit, I think it comes down to like the three pillars of fit. We often talk about arrow, power, comfort, sustainability.
So um if you think about those pillars that that a four-minute team pursuit, arrow and power everything, comfort stability is really low down. So we can we can prioritize making arrow and power the most important things and the and the setup that will allow that. But if you're asking me I want I need to be comfortable after five six hours is that you're asking me then comfort sustainability pillar becomes much more into it.
So we we those pillars change and error and power have to compromise a little bit to allow you to be in that position for that that length of time and all those things when you add it up the things that you get away with I say if anyone can cycle for two hours they're normally pretty good you're in not a bad position because at two hours is where you start to feel numb hands sore back things like this you know that does but those problems then get a lot more by six hours if everything isn't optimal so you find out what your workarounds aren't working around anymore and that's when you need to know what you don't So for you it would be I think if you rode long enough I think speed pay bells are better for you in the long run. That's my that that's what why we made that change suggestion today. >> How many bike fits do you think you've done?
>> 3,000. >> What do you think what's the number one problem you've seen recurring but going to the head? Um, so your top three problems on a bike are in, but they changes in order depending on gender and who comes with saddle pain, low back pain, knee pain.
>> Let's rattle through them and say the fixes for each of them. Saddle pain, low back pain, knee pain. >> Saddle pain.
Get your position right. First of all, don't go and buy loads of saddles. Saddle pain isn't always about the saddle.
All right. First of all, make sure your position is right because you can have the best saddle in the world and if it's not in the right place, ain't going to do the job. That's things like crank length.
Making sure that's right and all those things about position. Once it's there with saddle pain, it's getting the right saddle for the job that you're trying to do. So, don't use a time trial saddle on a road bike.
You know, if you're um doing really long distance, probably buying the most forgiving saddle that works with you. >> The physique thing we done today was literally like it's like a magic system. It was like a pressure mapping.
So, for anyone didn't see it, like Wes shot some footage so we can flick it over this, but it's a like a cover that goes over your saddle. Like when I was going to school and you put a plastic bag over your saddle to keep it dry. So, it's like the plastic bag goes over the saddle, it maps the pressure, and then it'll tell you which of the physique saddles fits you best based off that pressure mapping.
That was really, really cool. It's the first time I've ever done that. >> It's super cool.
And you from years ago when 3D printing first came into saddles with the carbon sort of material that they were using, uh, that the company called carbon, sorry, not carbon, but they I always thought at the time, yeah, when I hear 3D printing, I think custom. So, what they've done is that this GBM pressure mapping system we use, you we literally mapped it for you in three different position. algorithm goes off to Italy, goes into 3D printer and it looks at where you put pressure and it modifies how that cell's printed and then how it's going to go.
So you have the support where you need it and the and the forgiveness where you don't when you do need it. Now not everybody needs that but um asymmetrical people for example somebody who sits much more on the right hand side and like Sarah absolutely makes a mass it can make a massive difference and they've been very successful. What was good to you?
Was >> salv problems, knee problems, back problems? >> Back problems. Yeah.
Knee is because the knees, if you think about you're sitting on the saddles, so your hip doesn't have to do much. Your foot's locked into a carbon fiber shoe nor right. The knee is the joint that's left out in the wind, right?
And it's the one that's transferring all the power, generating it and transferring it. So, in my bike fit philosophy, I start with getting the saddle position right because it's so important like knee health. You know, the the ironic thing is most common cycling injury is a knee injury.
What's the first thing anyone does after a knee operation is they get on a static bike. They don't go running. So cycling is great for knees.
People will cycle a lot longer with knee pathology where they need you got wear and tear arthritis. I would prescribe it for anybody but it is completely locked in. West take 90 RPM a minute.
That's a lot of revolutions over two hours. Yeah. So having the you know spending investing a bit of time in like reading a book on bite fit or using my villa fit to make sure your knee position is in the right place or going to see a local bike fit can really just go well look I've had that check now I can go off and I can work as hard as I want.
I know I'm working my quads really hard but my knee's in a safe place you know. So but my top tips on knee pain are move your cleat all the way back. If your foot foot forward we keep the knee safe from getting too far forward.
Um, if you want like a duck, get loads of crank rub. Consider like speed pay pedals because they let you do what you want with your feet. Things like that.
You know, the right pedal system can be a godsaver for your knee. >> Just that old school trick that I would have learned of clip out of the pedal, put your heel on the back of the pedal, and it should be a full extension. >> So, that's a good rule of thumb.
It all breaks down when people have shorter legs, long torsos, injuries. They don't know about one leg longer than the other. But, I would that is a good place to start.
At least you're getting in the ballpark. Yeah, absolutely. >> Back pain seems to be one that just plagues so many leisure riders.
Like if I'm out with someone that, you know, doesn't ride their bike 10, 12 hours a week, you know, someone that jumps in for the occasional spin, >> they're almost always plagued with back pain. Whenever you get to the calf, you see them stretching out their back. I have one friend in particular, like he's absolutely riddled with back pain at the moment.
He can hardly walk. >> Yeah. >> What's causing it?
>> So, nearly always um I would re I'm going to give you three things, right? They're nearly always on the wrong. It comes back to that again.
Um, so you know your hip flexors that we talk about, right? They if the back pain is the type of pain, you know, you see the guys get off the the cafe stop and they look like old men walking around, but then five minutes later they're better or they cut off the bike and stretch, right? That's not your back.
That's not pathology, your bones to the back. That is the hip flexor, which is the ilio service muscle back over here on this skeleton. If me and you jumped in an old midi now and drove to the Jono.
Yeah. and we didn't stop and got out, we'd look like those old men, wouldn't we? Right.
That's cuz you've been sitting in a really closed pack position and your hips have got really tight. That's having too long a crank length on the bike. So, if you had me one go, I wasn't allowed to see the patient.
I just said, you told me you had low back pain and I had I had to guess in the dark what would make the biggest difference. I would say drop their crank. So, there you go.
Because they'll be able to move their pelvis forward. They'll be able to take the strain. often when the pel when the hip is really tight, the pelvis is fixed back here and you have to do all this lumbar flexion.
I only know this because this is all I do all day long unless it only works every single time. It's not the only reason for back pain. The first thing we do is establish are you taking the back pain onto the bike, you know, if you've got actual physical things wrong with your back, then that that can obviously transfer to the back.
But if it only comes on with cycling, it be I think it' be crank length and then saddle optimization. One of the easiest things you can do with is having the right whip saddle. someone shifts back all the time.
I often say to someone, "Do you find yourself shifting back all the time?" And they go, "Yeah, you got just need a wider saddle. They want they want the support and they're looking for it and they haven't got it, you know.
" And then the last thing, of course, if they're trying to ride like, you know, >> 55year-old office worker who's got Mark Cavish position, he's like, "Come on." You know, it's you know, that's a reason for back pain being far too low at the front. And that's what most people start off with and they back themselves off it.
What we trying to do is if you want to maintain your performance position, carry on doing as well as you can. Well, I can either bring your front end up, make you less arrow, make you more in a touring position, or we can finally change the crank length and allow you to stay in the relatively arrow position and produce power better and look a bit more younger. >> We we're talking about physique a lot today because we're going I'm going to go with a physique saddle.
When you look at the modern pelaton and you look at Pagacha's position, what do you see that's different about his position? because it looks quite unique. >> Well, he's quite unique, isn't it?
It's like So, yeah. Um, it's really it so um my the saddle that he uses is the Argo saddle and we helped design that in this room. That was my first job after the British Cycling Team Sky.
It's a real honor that he chooses that. It's really interesting he chooses it because it's more like a gravel saddle, right? But it has quite um has quite a wide nose.
It's a short nose saddle, but it comes Yeah. offers a lot of support. If you look at his position, he rides with like quite a lot of saddle tilt.
Yeah, it's quite tilted down. >> It's hugely tilted down. Like >> it's almost like a TT position that I'd be used on from a pursuit.
>> Exactly. He He's that good. He rides a TT position on a road bike.
And I think that's why he likes the 3D printed Argo because he can literally come to the nose of it. He's got all the support he needs. But he rides with about I would say it could be up to minus 6° saddle tilt, which is crazy.
That's normally a sign that something's not right. But god, he looks good on the bike, so you can't say it doesn't look right, you know. >> Is there a benefit to it?
>> Well, yeah. He's he's with um saddle tilt. I'm always all saddles are designed to be either used flat or slightly nose down.
Um a little bit of um saddle tilt really opens up your hips and that helps you feel more comfortable and more powerful. I think what he's doing is you got to remember with the pros when we do saddle pressure mapping, you know, you talked about how many fits I've done. I've probably done more saddle pressure maps, been developing saddles and shamis and seen people with pros, you don't see saddle pressure because they're pushing so hard on the pedal.
They the there's no weight going through the saddle. It's unbelievable, you know. So, when you try and map them sometimes, it's really really hard to do that.
But I think he is number one, West Cav, he's a freak. He's he's I've never seen anybody do what I think it's amazing, you know. Um and but often bite fizz are a strange bunch to go, "Oh, look at that.
That's wrong. How can you say it's wrong? It's like it's it's working for him.
Could it be better?" No, I don't think I think he's just worked out a way that works for him. You hit them now.
I think he rides time trial on a road bike. >> Every rider chases that feeling. The one where the bike just disappears.
Where the pedals turn easy and the road hums beneath you. And for a few fleeting seconds, everything just clicks. No effort, no noise, just flow.
That moment isn't luck, it's engineering. The coin that only comes from obsession. For over 20 years, Parley has refined the art of carbon.
Every layer placed by hand. every angle tuned by feel and data until response, balance, and speed exist in perfect harmony. You don't notice it parly because it's flashy.
You notice it because it feels right. Because every input, every climb, every corner happens exactly how you imagined it would. Customer production, every frame goes through the same uncompromising process, traceable, tested, and finished by people who still believe craftsmanship matters.
Parley doesn't chase trends. They chase that moment every rider lives for when the bike and the body move as one. Parley Cycles engineered for that feeling that keeps us coming back.
You mentioned you've fitted probably 3,000 plus bikes, but your experience is quite unique because you've worked with some of the greatest greatest athletes of all time. You've Chris F, Bradley Wiggins, Grant Thomas, Chris Hoy, Vicky Pendleton. We could rattled them off.
Yeah. What did you learn from working with the likes of Froom and Wiggins that you now carry into bike fits with average Joe's like me? >> Yeah.
So, and it it's it's a really good question. Like people again said some people like some people Chris Froom that maybe didn't look that good on a bike and I'd often say to them well it kind of worked. It's like you told Francis when Dave Br said I go to D say I want to change that.
Uh why do you want to change that? It's working. So the things like I I would say the things I take sometimes is some people come in here and feel like um some of the changes they made don't look great or they get bullied by the club and say oh you can't ride that.
If it's working for you work for you my best one is you mentioned Bradley you know you you mentioned putting you on speed bait you know we put Bradley on speed pay in 2010 because he his hip was starting to ache and kick out and you won the taller france on them. A lot of people think speed paper pers oh they're a bit special you need them but plenty of people win massive events on them you know so it's like that you know I think um I call it in my in my book mythbusters there's a lot of myths in cycling you have to do this this way or this way and I think we're starting to break down those walls now where people can do the crank length Bradley three weeks before his hour record he is we're going 165 for Rio he was riding 177 and a half he dropped to 170 three weeks before an hour record drops his front end 30 mil 3 and a half% dropping CDA. That's a man who won the tortos.
So when I'm trying to convince people to drop Crankclave, I I go if it works for him, it'll work for you, but it'll work for you times 10 because he's already really good, you know? So, but you mentioned those people. I I have learned lessons with them and those lessons are important because making somebody one or two% diff better can be the difference to winning and losing.
But most people in my experience when they come in here, the joy of my job is making them 20 25% better because the headroom's so much bigger. Brazford was notorious at Team Sky for these 1% gains. Like that was the whole >> Yeah.
>> thesis of the thing. It's the accumulation of marginal gains. When you're going into bike fitting with an average Joe or Jane, are you looking at marginal gains or is it always chasing the big gains?
How do you prioritize how to distribute your time when someone comes in for a bike fit? >> That's a brilliant question. So yeah, I I'm always about where spend time, effort, and money where it's going to make a difference and shift the dial.
Maybe that's why I come back to saddle crank length all the time and things. These are the things make people load better rather than like I'll give you an example. The the bike industry is always trying to sell us stuff, isn't it?
Yeah. So it's slightly offgu, but if you think about it, aerodynamics is very important in cycling because it's free. It's free speed once you get up to speed.
Aerodynamic bikes make me laugh. It's 9% of the front of the era. You're 91% of it.
Guess what? That's why skin suits work. It's like, so if you came to me and said, "Phil, I want to be more arrow.
What's the most cost effective way of doing it?" It's not going in a win tunnel because that's going to cost a fortune to find the difference between two positions. It's not an arrow bike because it's only 9% of your front layer.
It's buy the best skin suit you can possibly find. Why? Because it's 91% of the It's 91% of the thing you push through the wind all the time.
So what you got to with that Dave Brussel approach is like am I going to make a 1% difference to something that contributes 1% to the performance because that only makes a no I want to make a 1% difference to the thing. Hence why I come back to you made it a point earlier. I'll be like we for example in eight years I've only told three people they're on the wrong size bike.
Can you believe that? Right. Most people come in here and are really happy.
They go I thought I bought the wrong size bike. is because they're literally sitting out there trying to pedal it, you know, and they go, we move them into the right position and they're happy as Larry and you just get rid of the barriers to doing that. So, right pedal system, right saddle, right?
It's all those things. It's just all those things. >> If somebody's trying to get a local bike fit, you know, obviously I've I've come across Manchester into your studio.
It's phenomenal with a wind tunnel next door. Like ridiculously spoiled for resources here. Everyone some people I'm sure are going to come over and get bike fit for you.
Some people will go and do it. my VFit online. Yeah.
But other people do like that human touch of going to their local bike fitter. >> Yeah. >> How do you think about assessing your local bike fitter?
Because I know around where I live there's a lad bought a retail machine. I think he's like a tennis player. Bought a retail machine.
He's like doing nixers fitting bikes. It's like I don't think this lad even owns a bike. He's never been on a bike in his life.
How do you assess a good bike fitter from a bad bike fitter? Because to my mind it's kind of half art, half science. >> Yeah.
Um Yeah. I never I never um criticize anyone else to buy a fix because I don't know what went on there. But you're absolutely right.
It's not really a profession. So like a retool fit retools just a measuring tape. So retail fit is like I use it completely different to other people.
I think what you got to do is I would do your homework on them. Look at Google reviews, word of mouth. Ring them up and say, "Look, I want to come from a bike field.
What are you going to do? Does it match your expectations?" Now we've been open eight years.
We we we generally see people who um we meet their expectations because they know what we're about which is like our big thing is clinical le bite fit doesn't you don't have to see a physio who's a bite fitter but a lot of people like that if they're bringing maybe physical problems it's like well I'm a physio first and foremost so we first of all looked at you didn't we today and remarkably you haven't got much wrong with you apart from your massive quads and calves and everything which is all good you other people have asymmetries that they need assessing and you work that through so I think if you're looking if you if you got like a particular problem that you've had a good go at solving and it's like you know I medical inorientation so maybe knee pain saddle pain all those things we talked about you might look for somebody who who's got a bit of depth and knowledge in that in that area or has had success but just doing your homework and I always said I get this asked this question about physios all the time and I always say this is a bit doesn't really work for bike fing but physio- wise it's like um when you get asked that question you said well you should be getting better within free session and you should believe in the working diagnosis you've been given, you know. So, the way you could work that with bif is phone them up and say, "Can I have a quick chat about it? I want to come from a bite.
What's your philosophy? What are you going to do?" See if it sits well with you.
If it does, it's probably going to work. >> I I love your combination of credentials. Obviously, the British cycle and sky, it just adds a dimension that no one has.
But the physio is really interesting. >> Yeah. >> But I guess my question here is like how much can you change the person versus how much do you change the bike?
Because if I come in with tight hip flexors, is it like a legitimate course of treatment for you to give me a bunch of hip flexor stretches or are you better off just sticking me on shorter cranks? >> Do you want the easy answer? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> All right. I had all the time and the money to look after these people and they needed that.
Yeah. Um but most people haven't got that. And and I can tell you now, you're adaptable.
That's adjustable. It's a whole lot easier to adjust that than change you. Human beings are remarkably hard to change the way they do things.
Let me caveat that with rehab is different. So if you roll your ankle and everything, you need to make that better. Yeah.
So getting over actual injuries is problem. But if you move in a certain way and that's presenting a problem on the bike, I making the bike moving the bike to you makes more sense because somebody who's like, you know, I've got to I work in it. I've got to sit at a desk for 40 hours a week.
I can't do all the stretching in the world, but I just want to go and run my bike. All right, I'll move the bike to you. And that's great because that then facilitates them doing what they want to do, you know?
Having said that, I will stop someone and say, "Look, you are the problem. >> You need to do this." >> But we carry out that in a way that we don't give too many exercises.
And I think the need the ability to when to refer say, "Hey, I don't know what this is." For example, with insults, if people need really got funky feet and that I prefer to a podiatrist because I'm not a podiatrist. I don't I'm not going to make you an insult.
That's going to muck you up. You know, you're going to refer on at that point. The ability to refer on in any profession is the most important.
ability to say when this is whoa whoa I'm I'm done here right I think but one thing we say is we don't leave you hanging we'll find the person for you so we'll put you in the right room with the right sports doctor having said that some people come in here and it's quite obvious Anthony that they're just weak like fundamentally weak you know and we'll suggest look when you go back home it's not going to be engage with like some palatees engage with some and that that can make a real big difference to some people you know >> since getting back into training the biggest thing that's hit me isn't fitness, it's fueling. I used to finish rides totally wrecked. I'd come through the door, collapse on the couch, scroll through Instagram, and call it recovery.
But now that I'm actually fueling properly, and that's anywhere from 80 to 120 grams of carbs an hour, depending on the session, it's a completely different story. I'm coming home from training feeling fresh, and my power data throughout the ride supports this. I can actually function when I get off the bike.
It's honestly blown me away how big a difference that proper fueling makes. When I started fueling right, I realized just how good I could actually feel on the bike. A daily staple in my training now.
It's for endurance because I know exactly what I'm putting into my body. Every product is designed for performance. It's tested in real racing and it's used by the very best from Olympians to tour to France riders.
It's the same science just without the luxury brand markup. Seriously, jump over to their site and check out the prices. You'll be absolutely blown away.
It's real fuel, unbeatable price, great taste, no gut issues. Like, that's a winning combo for me. For endurance, built on science, proven in sweat.
Check them out at forurance.com and start fueling smarter. I'm going to put the link in the description down below.
You mentioned funky insoles. Running seems like it's trending towards wider toe boxes or even toe spread with stuff like the Vibram five finger running shoe. >> We don't really seem to be moving towards that.
There's a couple of shoes with wider toe boxes. Nimble's gone to a slightly wider toe box. Bunt, I think, and Lake have historically had wider toe boxes.
Most shoes are still very, very narrow. How do you think about shoe selection and what role does that play in the overall, you know, picture of fitting a bike? >> So shoe selection, you're absolutely right.
But you got to remember with cycling, it's a static foot sport. Yeah. So that's why um like everyone who really is into skiing.
Skiing is the same and they all have their ski boots fitted or get insoles for. So the wider the wider position is often for the people who have wider foots, but also that hot foot feeling that you get on long cycles is because your foot swells on those rides, especially and if it's in hotter countries, it'll swell even more. So what the wider shoe philosophy and that allows you to have that swelling without get if it if it doesn't have that then that's when you get the numb foot because you get pressure coming on your nerves.
I think you're right though the in that cycling shoes have fundamentally always been thinned. I mean they all produce a wider one even Specialized now. Specializ used to be a big joke but you stood on a specialized insole and everyone's foot was bigger than him and they know that they got their torch range.
Shimano have always traditionally done one. What we haven't seen in cycling is I think um you know the Nike when Nike started with the you know the V vapor fly shoes the these carbon things that chuck you off the front which are amazing in terms of they make really bad runners much better runners because they they make I'm just wondering when one thing I trend I've seen that you might not be aware of though is um is the um cleat positioning is getting you're able to move it further and further back. So that's something that's coming from I think from iron man and triathlon traditionally tile positions where this ability to move your cleat back and almost an arch cleat position.
I mean who decided the cleat should be at the front. >> Yeah. >> Why not directly underneath that?
And that seems to most of the major brands now specialized physique definitely. They're all getting this further back position. So if you want to you can move that there which generally keeps your knee safer on the bike and you and allows you to have a much more forward powerful position you know.
But I think the evolution carbon fiber cycling shoes I always say actually I in my opin they if people ask me where do you spend most money I always buy the best quality shoes I can because I want that comfort point. >> Is there a brand that's a universally a good brand for people? >> No not really.
I think all those ones you mentioned are good. Yeah. All those ones the fads come along and and things certain shoes certain people if you got like funky wide feet lake and chimano do but they all have a wide thing shoe now.
I think it's what you find. My my my take on that, support your local dealer. Go and try on the shoe.
Right? So, there's a guy, I'm going to tell you this now, this is the best thing I ever heard at lecture, right? A guy called Beno [ __ ] He did the he was the world authority on he was up in um ironically Sarah in South in Canada in South and um he did his retirement speech back in 2013.
Now, he stood up to the IC and he had 26 peer-reviewed papers on what prevents running injuries in in in in runners. Yeah. So, not cyclist but runners.
You'll see the link in a minute. Nike, Adidas, Sigourney, Brooks, they all sent him the trainers. Tell us what what's what will make that trainer better.
One thing he stood there and went you think you think like how it did up lacy. No, you think pronation control. You think insole, you think?
The one thing he only ever found that correlated to reduction in injury was how comfortable it was when they first put it on. And we demonize comfort far too easy. If you go in a cycling shop and put a cycling shoe on and you think it's comfortable, it's probably going to work for you on a bike.
>> It's a great little Tom. >> Just do it. >> Finish up.
You've worked with Rald off some of the athletes, Victoria Pendleton, Chris Hoy, Bradley Wiggins, Chris F, Grant Thomas, >> Anthony Walsh. >> Anthony Walsh. Who have you learned the most from?
>> Answer. No, it's it's who have I learned the most from. Um, okay.
That's a good question. Okay, Chris. Hoy.
Because Chris, bearing in mind what he's going through at the moment, he's a good personal friend of mine. He's a wonderful human being. But, so I remember one thing.
Um, Germans were kicking our butts before London 2012 in track sprint and we were panicking and some people were in the team were suggesting to find out what they were doing in training and to switch to what they were doing. I always remember Chris Oy coming in and saying why would I do that? I believe in the plan we set out.
I'm going to carry on with the plan we're going to set out. It will come through because we all said this was going to work and we haven't finished it. The the true greatest ability is to learn.
I I've I've looked at all these people and I I truly think Bradley through me Chris the one difference I find between um there's loads of people their numbers that you've never heard of that I've been aware of and there we see these people come through the academy Jesus Christ have you seen this you never hear them they have a breakdown get injured don't train well don't perform on the day the biggest difference I find between those is the mental difference but not mental and like being tough or anything like you know what the biggest I think is knowing when not to train and that sound may sound weird But knowing when not to push yourself because if you don't push yourself hard enough you don't get any better. You don't win any medals. But that ability to know when to take a day off which is you not skying but is you going actually I'm in a box.
I've done enough here. Plenty of cyclists get into that place. They they push on and that's it.
they're done for three, four weeks because they're >> I truly think those people and and the nice thing is I think some of them are the difference between some elite people is they can hack into the you know you hear hear those um superhuman stories of when women lift cars off their children and you think how is it possible? There's this thing called central governor theory. It's a little bit which basically says we always hold 10% back.
Like your body says no no no we could do 10% more and say you're out the ride but we're not going to let you go into that place. I want whoever these lock hack it. They without knowing it they actually can go into the red zone and it's like they're allowed to or they've worked out how to do it but there's yeah the people like Chris and they just go to places that most of us can't go to.
>> I was listening to Garrett Bale. He was on Roy Keane's podcast, the footballer Garrett Bale, and he's a scratch golfer now. >> And they were asking him, "Was he good enough to be a pro golfer?
" >> And he was explaining brilliantly, the first time I've heard anyone explain it really well, the difference between being a professional and being really good at something. He's like, "If you took him as a scratch golfer and put him on the first te of the Ryder Cup with the entire world watching, he'll cave. He'll just absolutely shank it into the hedge because he's not Rory Maloy.
" The same way you could take the lad that's good having a a kick around on a Sunday up the up the Sunday park and he's the leal Messi of his mates. You put him into Old Trafford from Manchester Derby in fronting 90,000 people. He absolutely folds.
There's something beyond the you're good at the craft that makes these lads the icons. Plenty of lads putting out the same numbers. >> Yeah.
>> In Team Pursuit as the GB boys, but something else made them unique. >> Yeah. How many pro cyclists or how many good cyclists are you out with who can go up go up hills really quickly but can't descend if you can't do that the tour to France the limiting factor to for me is can you descend as fast as everyone else because forget it if you can't because they're going to catch you up is it everyone forgets about that you have to have balls of steel to to descend you we all concentrate on oh I can get to there fast enough but they have to come down it as well >> word different Phil really appreciate your time today it was a great day thanks so much >> really enjoyed it cheers bud >> thanks for tuning into this podcast with Phil Bert.
I was lucky enough to be able to get to Manchester to get a bike fit off Philboard. That's not possible for everybody, but he does have an amazing remote service offered through my vellofit where you can get him to personally expert review your bike fit. It's definitely worth checking out.
I know it's helped a lot of our members in our not done yet coaching community. The link to my fit is just down below. Thanks for tuning in.
Subscribe up here. Watch this one because I know you'll love it. And I'll see you in the next one.