road man. Today I sit down with Mads Wartz Schmidt of P Racing. This is a really interesting conversation.
Mads transition from a successful world tour career into gravel. He won tracker last season for Unbound this year. The focus of this conversation is stuff that he wish he knew about gravel cycling when he was starting out his gravel journey.
If any of you are embarking on gravel cycling now, or if you're beginner, intermediate, or even if you're advanced and not a pro rider at Mads, you're going to gain a lot from this. He talks to me about tire pressure, traction, how much time he spends off-road versus onroad, types of sessions he does, fueling requirements, and one supplement that has totally changed his training. It's a really interesting conversation.
I think you're going to love it. Please welcome to the podcast, Mads Wartz Schmidt. Mads, welcome to the podcast.
>> Thank you. Thank you for having me. >> Mads, I think you're uniquely positioned in that you've achieved a lot of success on the road and then you're coming into the gravel world.
But today, I'm curious as to the lessons as to what you know now about gravel cycling that you wish you knew when you were making the change over because I think a lot of our audience are they're still skinny tire dudes and they're seeing so much debate about gravel. They're seeing Unbound Tracka, the romance of gravel that's building, or as you maybe call it, the spirit of gravel that's building, but they're unsure where to get started because there's so many moving pieces in this. So, I want to kind of build a foundation of knowledge for those people.
And we can go as deep as you like on some of the geeky stuff like, you know, tires, pressure, drivetrain efficiency. I know you've got some sort of next level nutrition advice that not a lot of people are using as well. so eager to dive in and see what you know now that you didn't know at the start.
Well, it's like um sometimes I think back to when I started where I didn't know anything and I kind of wish that I had that beginner's mind- because over the year I've, you know, I learned a lot about tires, tire pressure, tire size, uh um which is the main thing in gravel is what everybody's talking about before races. What tires are you going to run? And my first race was I hadn't got my bike from Specialized before the first race.
So I had a lone bike from Specialized which it was a Crox Pro um handlebar too wide stem too short uh didn't have a proper fit on it. And the only tires that was available was 42 mm Pathfinders from last year. Um, and everybody was talking about it was for Santaval here in Girona.
>> Yeah. >> And and I had four days of training on gravel before that race. >> Nice.
>> And and everybody was talking, oh, you need 50 mm here in Torona. It's rough and it's uh it's chunky. And I was like, I was training on my 42s and I was like, this is fine.
Like what is everybody talking about? Um cuz my reference was doing couple classics in Belgium and Perry Rup on 28 and 30 mm tires where you're just bumping around and like this was actually kind of comfy. So like 42s are fine.
Um and the race was was went rather okay. Like the first stage I was fourth. Um >> was this the was this LA this year's one or last year's one?
Cuz they had the hill climb last year but they excluded it from Santa Val this year. Yeah, it was this year. Uh this year we didn't have the the hill climb.
Um second stage I had to DNF because long story short, I had a knee injury over the winter for it took about a month to to get rid of. And and on the second stage I was uh I started to feel the knee a little bit, but I was also like done. Like I came into the race with three weeks of like base training.
Um, so, so to get fourth on the first day was way above my expectations and then the next day I uh, yeah, I I blew completely and then I started to feel my knee. But >> So, do you think there's too much do you think there's too much hype around the tires? Because I noticed this yesterday.
We have a road man WhatsApp group chat for the cycling club and one of the guys is looking to buy a gravel bike and he put in a gravel bike for sale. nice bike, but it only had clearance for 45 mil tires. And everyone's coming back to him going, "No, no, no.
You need more than that. Like that. Don't buy that bike.
Don't buy that bike." I was just like, "Bro, 45s are going to be fine for almost every single ride you do." I think a lot of guys, they overthink it.
Like, um, going mountain bike tires and all of this. And maybe it's just the road cyclist in me who's speaking now, but if you're riding in Europe, 45s will get you like through everything without problems. Here in Jerona, I do I race with 45.
I train with 45s. The only time I used 50s was for Unbound because I was [ __ ] scared of all the, you know, the punctures. Um and and the funny thing about Unbound is you have a 320k race where it's maybe 20k of the whole race that is high risk of puncture.
Um so and then Ian Boswell he told me he he did unbound on 45s. >> Yeah. And he could ride as well.
>> Yeah. And he didn't have a flat. And then Matt Beerus, he had 50s.
Uh, and he punctured three times before we were even halfway. >> But I I also feel with the 50s that this is like be careful with copying the pros. And I think we'll get on to this with nutrition as well because, you know, just cuz the pros are doing one thing doesn't mean as an amateur, you should do the same thing.
And I feel this with tires because a large reason from chatting to pro gravel riders on the podcast that they're using wider tires. The average speeds have gone up so much. If you look at unbound, it's 40k an hour average for a large part of the race.
So, you're in the wheel. No one's really calling [ __ ] at that speed in the wheel. So, you're hitting potholes.
So, you want to reduce mitigate that puncture risk and you have less puncture risk on wider tires. >> Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly. Um the thing about it is the way I see it like I would have loved to raise the 45s in unbound and I think when like there are some rumors that they will make a Pathfinder 50 mm. I think that would be the ideal tire for a race like Unbound.
But when you're in in my position, like I can control how I race, where I sit in the Pelaton, and I I'm able to Okay, here we are like this from I can't remember the name of the road, 10K, where it's really rough gravel. I give the guy in front 10 m and then I can see where I'm going. It's always about seeing where you're going.
Um, and then you can you can do some efforts yourself to avoid the punctures. But I will say European gravel 45s, they are ideal. Um, and uh, and then you you you you make it over the rough terrain.
Like on tracker, I did 45s. I didn't have a puncture. I've been training here in Jirona and I'm pushing it on the downhills with 45s and I haven't had a puncture in Jerona yet.
So, so in terms of skills coming from the road to gravel, there's obviously some major disadvantages not coming from an off-road mountain bike background. Like, how does somebody get used to that feeling of the tires moving under them, not having 100% traction at all times? How did you work on building this skill set?
>> Um, when I was a kid, I started cycling uh when I was 8 years old. And when I think from 8 years old until I was 15, I did a lot of mountain biking. Um, so I haven't forgotten it, but I will say like I think it was 3 years into my pro career, I did a training ride on a mountain bike with my dad and my brother back in Denmark and I was scared to death.
I couldn't handle that bike like flat bar and it's super wide. So different is enough. >> Yeah.
I just felt I felt like I could go faster on a road bike. So the the gravel bike is the perfect mix for me because you have the the tires to and the flexibility in the frame to to actually handle all of the rough stuff, but it's not a mountain bike. It doesn't handle completely different from a road bike.
Uh which is kind of perfect for me. Um, and then I remember years ago we had a training in the local club where a guy who was doing some downhill, he came and he said, "The less you touch your brakes, the easier it is to control. Like you need to learn how to navigate your yourself out of trouble instead of break yourself out of trouble.
" >> And I took that with me back then. And then I started like as a kid doing these crazy descents. I go if I go to the forest now in Denmark and I look at the descents I did when I was 12 years old and I'm like no way no way I'm doing that again.
Um but that helped me and and the same goes on the road like when it's slippery you don't want to touch your brakes. You need to navigate your way out of trouble. Um so this is kind of what I have in mind.
And then I have a pretty good feel for when I go too fast. Like I always go with a safety margin where I'm like I can save it from at this speed. Yeah.
>> If I go too fast, I break a little bit >> and go slower. But I always make sure that I have that that I'm in control of what is >> um but I was I my technique is quite good. Uh honestly, uh not to not to brag.
And are you riding gravel daily, weekly? Like where's most of the training getting done for you? >> I'd say 90% of my training is on the road.
>> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. >> I think a lot of gravel guys, they make a mistake by training too much on the gravel bike. Um cuz when you're on the road, you have a different speed, you have higher cadence.
Uh and you get the speed in the legs and you get those small accelerations. Um, like if you're doing a bike race on the road, like all of those micro accelerations that you also need in gravel to get over. If you're doing a climb and there's a little bump, you need to, you know, do two pedal strokes to get over it.
And I think the speed and the legs is is key for for gravel racing as well. Uh, cuz also the speeds are going higher and higher. Um, I only go on the gravel bike if I want to do a fun ride or if I need to train my technique.
Like because when you're going uphill, like here in Jerona, for example, a lot of the climbs, they're also technical when you go uphill. like you need to find the right position on the bike, get the right uh tension in your body when you're riding uphill, sit the right place on the saddle, and and find the right spot like in general to to go over the climbs fast. It's not about like some guys they for sure they do more power than me on the climbs.
But it's not about who does the most power, it's about who gets the highest speed, who can go fastest. um where I think technical skills uphill is also quite a thing. And then of course I I train on on the descent and and get into the flow and and learn the descent.
>> But there's a real lesson in that. I think that's important for especially young kids listening to the podcast. There's a difference between speed and power.
Speed wins races, not power. People forget that. >> Yeah.
It's not about pushing the most power. It's about going fastest. >> Yeah.
But the demands of off-road, if you take climbing for example, they are slightly different physiologically than the demands of a road climb. Like it's typically a lower cadence, higher torque effort. So do you build that?
Like I'm thinking about the I didn't race Santal this year. I raced it the previous year and like the backside of L's is just it's steep, it's technical, it's low cadence. Are you building specific strength strength type sessions into your training in the buildup to this?
>> Actually, no. Um, I've always been really good at torque stuff. Um, coming from my TT days when I was younger.
Uh, I always rode a big gear. Um, and and I think it's it's something I just have in my body. Like I do a lot of strength work um to, you know, be strong.
Um, but I don't really work any specific on on the on the cadence, stuff like that. It's it's uh I just make sure I'm fit and then when you're fit, you know, you can you can do everything. >> When you say strength work, do you mean off the bike or on the bike strength work?
>> Off the bike. >> So, what's that look like? Uh I have my session I do at home every single day before training like activation session but there is also some weight weights added to that um like core uh glutes hamstring uh quads uh and then I have once a week I go to the gym to uh to do you know lifting um but I don't do it like all out like I just go get the stimul ually on on the legs and and you know push some weights, but that's it.
Like it takes 20 minutes for me in the gym, then I'm done. Um and uh that's basically it. >> And your pre-ride activation, what what exercises are you going through in that and how long's it taken you?
>> Uh it takes me about 20 minutes. Um, first I do some mobility stuff uh just to open up the the lower back and and the hips and and uh then I have what's we call kele exercises uh activate the glutes uh few different exercises then I do some core work uh and uh then I have a specific exercise to uh get the glutes glute media firing like I'm I'm lying on my side and I have to push up with my >> leg and then I do some Bulgarian squats with a 15 kilo kettle bell. Uh and then I do stretching and I do trigger point on my TFL cuz that's always super tight on me and and if it gets too tight then I don't activate my glutes properly.
Um, so so that's basically it. And and this is I've been working on this like since the start of the year or last year actually for more than a year now. Um cuz when I was a road rider I have for two and a half years I had three herniated discs and um that problem was from not using my glutes when I was riding.
So the strain on my quads and my TFL and my back would get too big and then my my back would get too tired to hold the disc and then it would pop out. So it was getting into a routine where it was about um activating my glutes so I would actually use my glutes when I was riding and that changed everything. Um so that exercise routine is pretty important to me.
Have you changed your training being a gravel rider? I guess you guys race so infrequently. Like I I don't know your schedule offhand, but even if you're going gravel earth and some of the Lifetime series, there's a there's not that many races.
Like like I was chatting to one of the guys from the Lifetime series like they're coming up to Leadville or maybe by the time this is out, Leadville will just have happened. But that's like the I want to say the third race in the Lifetime Grand Prix series this year and it's August. Like that's wild.
>> Yeah. No, I don't I don't race that much. Um so I'm training a lot, but again coming back to like my volume is not super high, but it's really effective training.
Um if I don't have a rest day, I have efforts. Either it's fat max efforts or it's a mix between fat max and and view to max. Like you do fat max efforts with uh some spikes every 3 minutes, stuff like that.
>> Explain that fat max effort for someone that doesn't know what you're talking about. >> Yeah, that's the uh 2 uh stuff where um you train your fat metabolism and um and then yeah, that's it. And then when you're a pro, you get to a certain point where you can't push it anymore.
Like then you have to do a lot of fat max training. So now this is what changed for me this year. Like the biggest change was we did fat max efforts with spikes.
So you do the spike of 15 seconds after every 3 minutes um to get some lactate, but lactate is also a source of energy. So when you're doing that in the effort, first of all, you you train how to clear lactate faster, but you also train how to use the lactate as a source of energy. >> You're becoming solar powered.
>> Yeah. So, so, so I've been doing a lot of that stuff. And over the winter, uh, my like the base training, uh, before like my big goals of the year was basically that kind of training.
So, what's that right now? What's he at? And what are you spiking to?
>> Uh, I'm pushing 330 to 350. >> Uh, and my spike is 550 to 600. >> And how long is that session?
>> Uh, it's four times 15 minutes. >> Okay. Uh, so you're how often does a spike?
Every two minutes. >> Every 2 minute 45. Then you have 15 second spike and then 2 minute 45.
That's sticky enough. It is like the last effort is is is getting getting hard. Um and sometimes we also do sweet spot, you know, just below threshold uh with spikes or actually to threshold with spikes.
And then I have these crazy sessions sometimes to simulate like a race um which is only possible to do because I don't race that much. So we can do some training days where we actually make an effort or like the whole day is an effort to simulate a race and get that in the body to to adapt to becoming race ready. Um and that would be I've had a I had a crazy session uh a week out of tracker I had five hours and it started out with three times 10 minute 4020s.
>> Nice. So Michael Ferrari session. >> Yeah.
Uh then 20 minutes easy going into 1 hour fat max uh with a spike every 10 minutes or 20 second spike. Uh 10 minutes easy or 15 minutes easy. Then it was 10 times 6030s.
So 60 minutes on the gas like V to max 30 seconds off. 3 minutes recovery then 3 minutes all out. Go back down the climb.
do two times 12 minutes threshold with spikes and then fat max home. I came home like five hours and my normalized power was 350 watt. Like it was insane.
>> How are you choosing a route for that? >> It was actually I didn't think of it at the time, but when I checked it, I went if you're familiar with with Jirona, I went over L's the climb we have just next to the city. did my 4020s, then the downhill was the recovery and riding out through town.
And then I just did a big main road that I knew was about 1 hour to the climb in air, which is going straight there is 40 45 minutes if you're going fast. Then I did the last bit up the climb. Then the recovery downhill.
Then I started the next effort. Then I did all the efforts out there like until the threshold and then back down and home. So actually when you look at the straa it's just one line.
It's >> like an out out and back route. Um but in a session like that you're so focused on the work and the efforts that I didn't even think about where I was going. Like I was fixed on the on the head unit and and then uh then that's basically it.
>> And why not jump into some local cat one races to get those that type stimulus? I have been thinking about it. Uh the truth is I don't know how to get into those races.
>> You need to learn Catalonian. >> Yeah. Yeah.
Um I I was looking for some races at some point, but then I just got out of it. Um and uh thing is like I also like to be in control with my training. Um, >> yeah, I did.
I guess you're adding the crash risk in as well or >> Yeah. Yeah. stuff like that.
And um and I was just at that point I was just so focused on trucker and what was coming up in in May that you know I wanted to do my training on my own and cuz you know every day is more or less an effort day with efforts and it was important to me to be 100% in control with what I was doing. So at that time racing on the road or stuff like that didn't really like it wasn't something I was thinking about. Um cuz I was super motivated, super focused and and really I was on a run like I was getting better and better and better every single week and I made it up to like for tracker I was the best I've ever been in my life.
Um >> and what are you measuring that by feeling? Numbers? It's a like feeling numbers um like absolute power but also power to weigh like what's per kilo um and my feeling like power could just keep going and I was doing new records uh that I haven't been like I was doing numbers that I've never seen before and I was like it's too good to be true or like something wrong with the power meter but >> you know I have an SRM power meter so it's pretty accurate.
Um, so I was everything just fell into place and I think one of the reasons is that I didn't have that many races um like back in the road like when you're in a in a world team it's difficult to get a big training block apart from from the winter because when the season starts you're going from race to race and then suddenly you think okay now I have two weeks where I can get some base training in and just you know focus on the work and and try to to push myself to a little bit better, become a little bit better, but then suddenly your phone is ringing and you have to fly to Belgium to do a 0.1 race or >> yeah, >> Ratan or something like that and then you get interrupted and here I had no interruptions. I didn't get sick.
I didn't get injured. Everything was just like every day was just working out perfectly and and I could, you know, achieve new levels in in my performance. So it was a it was a great time >> going into tracker.
Were you confident you could p pull off the win? >> Yes. Because of that training I had the Sunday before.
>> Are you >> I was like >> are you still happy if you come away with seventh place? Like does it is it about the process of you going okay I've done everything I can to be the best version of me possible. You obviously can't control what other people are doing.
Um, I think for tracker I would have I would have been satis satisfied with anything but the win. Um, the amount of work I've been doing and how well I was riding and and I said it to the day of the training this this Sunday before tracker. I I told my coach, if I don't have any bad luck in tracker, I'm going to win.
I nobody's going to be able to follow me like this when I'm going like this. And I said the same to my manager the day before and like I was so confident that I was going to pull it off. So that whole buildup also I would have been extremely disappointed in becoming second.
But then you can also look at it if when you're in this situation say you did your best race like you couldn't do anything >> anymore like you pull off the race of your life and you becomes you get second. You can be disappointed with the race but still be proud of the process. Um, >> how well did you know the course leading into track?
Had you pre-ridden every section of it? >> All the important parts I knew by heart. Um, and I maybe there were 10 or 20 kilometers that I hadn't been doing on um like out in the flat parts, but all the key sections like I could ride that without a GPX.
Um, so I knew it pretty well. >> Hydration hasn't really moved on that much in the last few years. Everyone largely agrees on hydration intake.
What really has moved on is nutrition. Everyone is pushing more carbohydrates than ever been pushing before. And I I've chatted recently to the two guys that are responsible for this whole movement on the podcast.
Most of this modern push towards higher carbohydrate levels comes off the back of a 2016 paper by Dr. Sam I impy which is called fuel for the work required. >> And now Sam is together with David Don and they've put together this nutrition app Hexus and a bunch of the world tour teams now use Hexus.
And this is what's going to causing this move towards the really high-end carbohydrate when you're on sessions like that one you talked about. I can't remember what it's called. I'm going to call it the kitchen sink because there's a little bit of everything thrown in there.
That kitchen sink ride, are you using that as an opportunity to practice high carbohydrate level intake mimicking what you're going to do on race day? >> Yes. Every super hard ride I do, I do between 120 and 150 uh grams of carbs per hour.
>> It's big. >> And a day like that, because the training is so demanding, I also do proper carbo loading the day before. Like I treat it as a race day where because I need to be able to repeat V2 max over 5 hours.
So it is super demanding and you need to be properly fueled for it. So it starts the day before with carbo loading uh low fiber like full on race routine to be ready to to max out in that session. Um, and then a lot of carbs and uh my new favorite drink in the morning, uh, the no meal.
So, it's uh that's basically what I'm doing. I'm treating a proper hot training day like a racing day. >> Yeah, I'm I'm rocking the Nomio as well at the moment.
Uh, took Mads Patterson's lead on this. I seen it this year. I was like, I got to get on to this.
So, Nomio hooked me up with some Nomio as well. How are you finding it? >> Yeah, I really like it.
Like I I had a was it I saw I think it was during Pyrenees or after Pernees I read an article where there was a quote from Matt in his podcast with his friend where he said that he used this nom and then it got made me curious and I was like maybe I should try and get something to see like what it actually is and what it does. I started reading about it. I was like, "Well, I I'll give it a shot.
" Um, then I had I got a sample like I don't know how many I received, but they they were like, "Yeah, I'll we'll we'll send you something." Um, then I had a super hot training session. Um, which is it's also one of the days where you kind of go out and you test how good you are.
>> Yes. I haven't been using it before training. That's interesting.
I'm going to start doing that now. I I I don't know why I never really even thought of it, but I guess you're trying to maximize adaptations in every session. >> I wanted to test it in training before I you know, I do so few races that when I do racing, I'm not going to test anything in racing.
Yeah. Like I'm going to test it out in training before. And since I have these kind of hard super hard days, it's and this day was is I start with 13 30s going into 5* 8 minutes threshold and then the last 2 minutes of each effort going up to V2 max.
So, three five times 10 minutes um progressing into the automax and super hard session where I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna try it for this." And the 3015s I could just keep going. The highs like the the the last effort, the last 30 seconds was same numbers as the first 30 seconds.
then going into the to the to the threshold and view to max like it was I could keep pushing high numbers in each set like I didn't have to adjust uh regarding to my RP or like it was I could just keep going and then I came home from the training ride and I did all the efforts on clims for the tracker and I came home and I had the Straa record on four out of five climbs. >> You're broken. >> So I was like, "Wow, what is this?
" Like and and then it had me really believe in the product. Then later I tried it for another race specific session and it was the same. I could just keep going like the I could keep repeating those high numbers um and and started using it in racing and and it's the same like I didn't feel that lactate burnout until the very end of the race.
So it's uh it's definitely helped me and and of course I also believe a lot in the product so it make maybe it makes it even better but they have some some proper data that shows that it actually has an effect. What did Italia stage slayer Mads Patterson and half the professional pelaton have in common? Well they're all turning to Nomio the natural performance enhancer proven to reduce lactate buildup during intense efforts in the 2025 Jeralia.
Person's form was undeniable. The Danish star surged to four stage victories. This was a major leap in form from his previous season.
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Whether you're racing at the front or you're smashing local segments, Nomio helps you get more out of every ride. Take it before key sessions or races for an immediate edge or take your training to the next level and get more out of your hard work. Go to drinknomio.
com, that's n o m io, and check out this gamechanging supplement. Details are in the episode show notes or description down below. Yeah, I'll link it below for anyone curious because I think that's the main compelling argument for for me is the data on it.
So, I'm going to link that below. But, I'm curious what your race calendar looks like for the rest of the season because, as you say, you don't race that much. What have you raced so far and what's left on the plan this year?
Oh, so far I started the season in Santal. Uh, then I did a UCI race in Belgium, a completely flat course. Uh, then I went into a big training block, threw in the new UCI race around Monaco.
Uh, and then Draa. Then I had three weeks in the States where I did two races before Unbound. Um, I had punctures in both races.
they weren't super successful. Uh, and I still felt a little bit fatigued maybe mentally from from tracker. My shape was still really really good, but I was always feeling a little bit under when I had to go super deep and and it wasn't until 3 days before Unbound that I actually felt good.
Um, and then yeah, Unbound obviously >> fourth and unbound big result. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Big result considering how Unbound played out with the two guys. up the road like just got a crazy gap and effectively race over. >> It was stupid.
They had 13 minutes and I think when we had 140k to go, I was like we had done some crosswinds before that I tried to to push the pelin in Little Egypt, but I went fast. So when I came to the top of Little Egypt, I was just alone. Uh so the pelatin didn't split.
I wanted a smaller group so we could start working together. Then we had some crosswinds where it finally split a little bit and and we became a smaller and smaller group but still at 140k to go. I was like we are not going fast enough.
>> M at 140k to go on a 13-minute cap. >> Yeah, they have 12 13 minutes and we need to be going full gas. So then I just went um >> TT >> bridge.
Yeah, I I I went and then I was like hesitating a little bit because I wasn't really riding away from the guys but they were coming back to me and then at what was that 100k to go something like that whole boss he breached across to me. I was kind of waiting on him cuz I saw he was coming alone. I was like perfect.
I just need one guy one more and then we can go. and I waited for him and then we just sended it bridged across to the group of six where he and Boswell were and and some other guys. Um and we caught them out of the second feed song and then there's this climb on road where you turn into the gravel on the top and I look back at Paul and I'm asking are are you ready?
because I didn't want to go in a group of guys where they had been sitting out there the whole day because they will all be thinking I'm going to stay on the wheel. I'm not going to work. So Paul, he said no, but I just attacked past them.
Um and then I could see I got a nice gap. Two guys were 18 20 seconds behind me. So I waited for them and then uh that was Torbjon the the Norwegian guy and Brendan Johnston.
I actually didn't know that Norwegian guy. >> Yeah, me neither. But I don't know anyone in Bravo.
Um I'm starting to learn who's like learn the names and stuff like that, but I'm still, you know, not very good at all of that. And um so so and Brendan, he was he was kind of [ __ ] So so he he didn't want to pull. So I attacked in tailwind up a climb and he could follow.
So I was like, "You're not that [ __ ] are you? You can follow like this." >> But then he did like one or two pulls and then he started to sit on the wheel again and then I just went again.
>> And I kept chasing and chasing and chasing those first guys. >> Oh, you sound like a nightmare to be in a group with. >> Yeah, I think a lot of guys go.
>> A lot of the guys they hated me. Like one of my teammates, he also said, "When you left the group, like he was sitting in in the in the group of favorites there when he said, "When you finally left," it was like everybody calmed down a little bit like finally he's gone. Um and and then, you know, we we dropped Brendan and then it was me and and Torpion and you know, my eyes were set on winning the race.
I I wasn't going to ride for third. I could have slowed down and take it more easy and then then I'm pretty sure I would have come away with third, but third or fourth didn't matter to me. >> So, I was like, I want to catch the guys in front and I want to try and win the race.
So, I pulled as hard as I could and I kept doing it >> until we hit the 8 hour mark and then I was done. Uh then I couldn't push anymore. like started my poles were 270 watts and I felt like I was going full gas and then 250 240 I just couldn't do anymore.
Um and then in the end I tried to attack on the the little hill before the finish line. >> Oh the little p the the tarmac. >> Yeah.
Yeah. Um, I got a little bit of a gap, but then coming down to the right left corners like the chicane before the finish line, I I was just hurting so bad. Like, I couldn't push anymore.
I just couldn't push anymore. Like, and the last kilometer there, I did full gas with everything I had. And my average for 1k was 420 watts.
And I I was just and I came across the finish line and I saw the moon, I saw stars, I saw like and I had to lie down. I was completely blacked out. Uh so it it was a nice experience, but I I'm the way I my mentality was in the race was that I'm not going to settle for third.
I'm going to try and win. And I kept believing I could win until the last hour. Um >> you're going to go back state side for assumingly you're not going back for Leadville at this point.
Were you going to go back for big sugar? Anything else in the season? >> Gravel UCI gravel worlds.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly. Exactly. So, I'm staying in Europe for the rest of the season.
Um, >> and I actually I did national championships on the road and I did a good race. My shape wasn't like in tracker or Unbound anymore, but I did a good race. It was a super hard race.
Like it was 60 km an hour crosswinds. And it split from kilometer 10 and I was in the first echelon of 10 guys. It was me, Matt Pettison, Kagandas.
Um, all the like aspirin was there like the big big >> Danish national just stacked though. Like one of my friends went over to do the TT and he's been dominating. He's Danish, but he lives in Ireland.
>> Uh, Johannes Ramdal. He works in Fusion actually, so you might know him. Uh, but he he's dominating the TT scene here.
and he went over and I know he had some bad looking. He dropped a shame but he didn't crack a top 10 and like just stacked field. >> Yeah.
Yeah. So my shape wasn't the same but I still did a good race. So the following day the national coach Michael he called me and asked me if I wanted to do two of Denmark >> the national team.
>> That's cool. >> So So I'm doing that. >> So you're back on the road.
>> Yeah. I'm doing that in 10 days time. >> So you're not a gravel bro anymore.
uh for for now those five days I'm I'm I'm back on the road but then I go back uh I'm doing then the following week I do the UCI race in Italy Monato or something. >> Yeah. >> Uh then I do Belgium UCI race huit in the islands like those two races looks proper hard.
Having sampled now gravel life, world tour life, >> what's what's a nicer pace of life? >> Gravel. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I really enjoy it.
I I have a lot more time at home uh to see my family. Uh our daughter, she's 2 years old and I'm not really missing out on that much anymore. Um >> You miss the guys though?
>> Yeah. I I miss some of the stuff. Like I miss having that like when you're on a race and you're doing good as a team, the whole vibe and all of that.
Uh that is something I miss and I miss that. Um the spirit we have as a team, like you're there with the guys, you're on the bus, you're having fun. Um but at the same time, I was also getting kind of fed up with it.
Like I think I wanted to stay on the road initially, but I feel like when look when I look back and and then I see what I have this year, like I think this was the change that I needed in my career. Like I was not ready to quit cycling >> uh when I didn't get a contract. Um like I was actually more motivated than than ever before.
I had some terrible years and some challenging years with uh my injuries and I got sick with stress and and you know I I had to work my way back and it took me two years and then through season 24 I had my back injury again but I made it back on the bike and the joy of riding and training and racing came back and I worked so hard to get back there and then I ended up after 24 without a contract and I was just not ready to to stop cycling. So then the gravel opportunity arised and I was like I jumped it. How are you finding the because gravel even for the top guys in the world, it seems to be this game of you need to be super strong on the bike training almost like a world tour rider, but you need to be building a personal brand as well to give return on investment to your sponsors.
That's very different from the world tour where it's just go and be the best bike rider you can. Have you adjusted to this new paradigm? Yeah, like you you need to promote yourself.
Um and uh so I'm trying to be more active on Instagram and and I have had periods where I was better than what I've been the last month. Um >> I'm not sure if I follow you. I'm going to follow you now.
>> Um thank you. Uh >> I'm going to follow you and I'm going to shout you out. So there you go.
>> O maybe I'll get a new some new followers. Like no, I have been trying to brand myself and my my number of followers have increased. I think I've since I started to be more active, like 4,000 more followers or something.
So, it's it's progressing and it's getting better, but I still believe like my main focus is on the bike. >> Well, as long as you win, like you win track, you're forth and unbound, that papers over a lot of cracks. There's a another category of gravel guys who are like they'll come 40th, 30th, 20th.
You need your social game on points if you're not cracking top 10. >> Yeah. So, I'm fortunate in the way that I get my followers through my performance um or if I do a funny post or something like that.
But it's uh I put my like that's that's the same like you see Yonas Vinegard, how many followers does he have? And what does he post? Basically nothing.
So like I believe if you're a good cyclist and and you do well in the races then then all of that is going to follow up uh follow along with it. Um so I put my main focus on on the bike and the racing. U but I am aware of the the impact of social media and that it is important.
Um, and I try to post uh when there is something to post, I will post it. But I'm not going to post anything on Instagram just to make a post. Yeah.
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What's 2026 big goals? Defend defend tracker. Win onbound.
>> Yes. Yes. Win on bound is the biggest goal next year.
Um that will be my absolute main focus. Um but again the month of May gravel is so important because you have track and unbound and you need to be good for both. And if you're good for both, then you will have sponsors, income, and and that's just going to make your career.
Those two races, like I could stop racing for the rest of the year. >> Yeah. >> Because I had success in those two races.
>> And I don't know if you've planned this for next year, but you're going to have to go through me for Unbound. I think >> like that that could change your game plan. I'm not sure if that's how it changes how you approach your winter now.
Even we got we got to be talking about this. >> Yeah. I can uh I can if you get a cap and a bottle then you can pull for me.
>> I'll give you everything I have. Just let me part of this story. >> Yeah.
No, I that's the big goal. But I also I'm thinking that next year I will do the track in 360. >> Oh yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Everyone just seems to go longer. Well, now you've won the 200.
So, it's not like >> if I didn't win the 200 this year, I would have gone back to the 200, but now I want it >> and like I see natural to try something else. And I tried the long distance in Unbound. Um, and I'm fine with it.
Even though my longest training ride was 7 hours this year and I only did it one time and I was still good for almost 9 hours. >> You coming to do Badlands in September? No way.
No way. No. >> I'm just trying to figure out my uh I'm trying to figure out my kit at the moment.
I'm like, >> how do you charge your bike computer? Like cuz my Hammerhead the battery is pretty good on the new Hammerhead, but it's it still only lasts, I don't know, 14 hours or something like >> Yeah. >> So, I'm having to figure out going, "Oh [ __ ] how do I actually charge that during a race?
" So, >> you need maybe two or three power banks for that race, I guess. Yeah, I know >> because you can't when your power bank is out then you can't charge that. So you need a I would say you need a few >> and you're going to be through the night twice.
>> Even if you win, you're going to be through the night twice. >> So it's like you need a power bank to charge your Yeah. I don't know.
I got to figure this out now in the next >> Yeah. >> Start ordering stuff. >> Yeah.
But then Yeah. But yeah, the rest of this even is UCI races. I only then I do those two UCI races and then I have a training block of 14 days.
Then there's a UCI race up in the Pyrenees just two hours from here. Lot of climbing >> gravel. >> And then Eurravel.
Then uh European Championships in Italy on gravel. >> Nice. >> And uh three weeks after that we have championships and then my season is finished.
>> Nice. Then you're going to be >> Yes. >> The Irish pup.
>> Yes. >> Ah yeah. Yeah.
There's an Irish pup here in Torona. Yeah. Now I've gotten older and I have a family.
So those uh those long nights at the uh the Irish Pop, they're they're long gone. I remember actually one year we did I was racing Binkbang Tour. I think it's called Beneduk's tour or movie tour or whatever now.
And it's it's late in the season and then suddenly you have a world tour race in Holland and Belgium and you go back to like it's basically every day is like a classic but in September. So you just after that you're so mentally exhausted that [ __ ] it's a long week. And then after the last stage we go to the airport.
I sit in the airport with uh two other guys and we have like three and a half hours until our flight. So we just start on the dules and the Swiss beers and we get so wasted and then we make up this idea like okay when cuz we were flying directly to Jirona. We found a flight from Shalava.
>> Yeah. >> Normally when you race in Belgium you're on the night flight uh to Barcelona. So we made the Jirona flight and uh landed in Jirona, went straight to the Irish with our suitcases in our team, you know, casual clothing.
And then funny thing is an hour and a half later, the guys who were on the Barcelona flight, they arrived at the Irish P, same uh like team clothing, all of that. And then we had a good night. >> Yeah, if that bar could tell some stories.
I said it's been good nights there. Dan Martin winning Leaz and stuff. Big parties in the Irish.
>> Yeah. >> H Matt, thanks for taking the time for chatting and we'll catch up soon.