The list of riders who've dropped Tadej Pogačar and beaten him this season is one, Wout van Aert, until now. British rider Andrew Feather, first place, Tadej Pogačar, second place, at the Poggy Challenge in Slovenia this past weekend. I caught up with Andrew Feather in this interview to find out exactly how it happened, equipment he used, race day nutrition, and honestly here his answers are both surprising and hilarious.
You're going to love this interview. It's Andrew Feather. The man who beat Poggy, Andrew.
We're in the in the presence of royalty. Welcome. Hi there, hi.
How are you? I'm very good, thank you. Yeah, nice to be on the show.
Uh Wout van Aert and Andrew Feather, that's the list, the only men who beat Poggy this year. Yeah, I think I think it has to be taken with a pinch of salt there because you did he he did have a 6 or 7 minute head, you know, um uh behind us kind of thing, so but >> Small details. >> Small details.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We don't need to get hung up on that.
Like, just go with the headline. You beat Poggy. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think he set the rules for the competition, so his his kind of rules that he set was that he wanted to catch everyone and then obviously finish first across the line, so fortunately I managed to stay away um and uh yeah, managed to to cross the line in first position. Albeit he was >> anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, uh talk us through what was the event, where was the event, what was the format of the event? So, the event was effectively a mass hill climb start in Slovenia um and the event actually started in his in his home village where his parents still lived, so it was a very local event, lots of his family and friends were there kind of thing and obviously local supporters.
Um and um yeah, I I spotted the event online. I think it was on Instagram and I thought it's right in the middle of my hill climb season, you know, I should be at peak fitness then, you know, so I signed myself to signed myself up to it and uh and went from there basically, but yeah, it worked out well. What distance was the climb?
The distance was around um 15 km, I think, and I think it had an elevation gain of around 1,200 m, so it was a big it was a big climb. Average percent of around 8%, so um Big climb. >> Yeah, big climb.
Um and you know, really really beautiful, you know, you looked across all the mountains in Slovenia when you sort of got to the got to the top and you you actually arrived in the ski resort there, so um yeah, fun fantastic climb. Um and he >> And the fans turned out as well, like it was incredible. It was, yeah, it was like a it was like a Tour de France stage finish, you know, you had thousands of people watching at the end and the event was um finished with a local band in Slovenia playing, so I think that also attracted a lot of people.
Um but yeah, it was it was his climb, I think, that he trained on as a youngster where he did all his efforts kind of thing, so he knew it he knew it very well and um he beat his own KOM, I think, on the Also, he went full at it. What was the handicap at the start and then what was the gap at the line? So, the handicap at the start, I mean, I've heard various reports, anything between 6 and 7 minutes, and that kind of stacks up because when I crossed the line, I was waiting for about 3 minutes and then he crossed the line.
So, 6 minutes, 6 and 1/2 minutes stack up because I think the the net time between me and him was 3 minutes 29, so 3 and 1/2 minutes basically, that he was quicker than me. That's pretty solid, like Andy, that's like you're looking at Quinn Simmons' performance in Lombardia, uh you know, a couple of weeks back by the time this airs. And his his power numbers were outrageous if you had a chance to see them for that.
I think he did 355 average, not normalized for the hard day. But for over 4 hours, but he was climbing most of those climbs at north of 400 W and I don't know Quinn Simmons' exact weight, but I would imagine low 70 kg and Tadej caught him off 2 and 1/2 minutes on the second last climb. Yeah, it's yeah, he's incredible.
I mean, I did I think for 44 minutes I did 397 W which is around 4.6 kilos. I'm weighing about 63 kilos at the moment, so um yeah, massive massive uh he's he's incredible basically, so What watts did you hit again for the climb?
I did 397 W. Well, that's big. It's big for a climb at your weight.
>> Yeah, and also you've got to take into account there's quite a few downhills in the climb, so that would have that would have taken down the average power. Um I was consistently looking down at my power meter and I was seeing around 420, 430, so obviously with those downhill bits I would have lost a bit of average power. Um but yeah, it was um it was it was it was massive, yeah.
How did you break the climb down in terms of pacing or did you just try and ride A to B in as fast a time as possible? Um I basically rode my own race and I sort of went out from the outset yeah, riding at my own power and thinking that at some point he was going to catch me. I didn't have a clue how long he was going to be waiting at the bottom kind of thing to kind of catch people, but I'd I'd heard, I think, that the organizers had gone off on his deficit on a estimated path of the amateur best amateur riders doing around 5.
5 W per kilo. Um yeah. And because I did about 6.
2, obviously that's probably the reason why he didn't catch me, so um you know, obviously if he'd given himself a bit more of a leeway and he he started a bit earlier, he he he he would have never he would have caught me, so um It almost would have been cool to get caught in like the last kilometer or something to see if you could hold on. >> Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was almost hoping for it to happen really and obviously I was doing the I was doing the event as part of a GCN video as well and they'd specifically put on a camera on the back of the bike and also the front of the bike for that moment, but it never happened, so So, you ruined their video.
>> I ruined their video. Although the cameras did turn off after 20 minutes cuz they lost battery, so in the end it wasn't too bad. So, you're you know, you're known for being one of the best hill climbers on the British domestic scene, so anyone who follows you know, cycling UK, Ireland will have heard your name from time to time, so it's not a shocking surprise.
You haven't exactly come from nowhere to pull out this crazy climbing performance. But what was your training like leading into this? Uh you didn't get off the couch to pull out those numbers.
>> No, so I'm I suppose I'm at peak fitness at the moment just going into the British Nationals next week. Um but I mean, this is at the opposite end of the spectrum, so the climb in 10 days' time is is a 2-minute climb, so I've been really focusing on those short efforts that you know, those 2-3 minute real power climb efforts. But you know, because I've got a low weight at the moment and I've have been focusing on, you know, that that high power, I was able to kind of manage to to to also yeah, transition to doing a longer climb as well, but I wasn't specifically training for that long climb.
Um but yeah, it it I enjoyed the long climbs. I think they're really good and you know, obviously on a short climb like a 2-minute climb, you don't need to be the best climber to win that, you know, a power you know, someone who's almost a sprinter could win that, whereas you know, a 44-minute climb, you have to be quite a a decent climber to sort of, you know, do well in an event like that really. What's a typical training week looking like for you in terms of volume and intensity?
Um so, I'm pretty unscientific with my training. I try and do around 2 hours per day. Um just when I get a window with work and family and stuff, I kind of go out and yeah, just do 2 hours, few hill climb efforts, nothing too specific.
And uh and kind of go from there. And at the at the moment, obviously I'm doing hill climb efforts at the weekend in the competitions. Um yeah, but it's been interesting this year cuz I've done some testing with um Exeter University, some physiological testing.
Um and um so, sort of VO2 max testing and um where my lac- lactic turning points are. Um like my lactic I didn't really know any of this before, but my lactic my my first lactic turning point and then my second lactic >> LT1, yeah. LT1 and LT2, so I now know what that is, so um which is quite interesting.
I didn't before, so they were quite impressed with the results when they did it, so um yeah, it's been interesting doing that as well, so So, when you break down and you deconstruct the component parts of going fast in a hill climb, obviously being physically your body light is one, the bike being light is another, aerodynamics is another, power is another. Maybe let's take those in turn and talk to me about how you approach and try and optimize each of those. So, I suppose in terms of weight of body, I mean, I'm pretty I'm not that rigid throughout the year, but in hill climb season I try and be a bit strict.
So, I've certainly noticed within the last couple of years it's been harder to lose that final bit of weight, especially, you know, so typically yeah, by the end of October I want to be 63 kilos, which is kind of my race weight. But it's been really difficult this year and that's probably just cuz I've been a bit older really um and I've had to cut a few more things out, so I'm typically a bit weak for having a massive bowl of cereal before I go to bed, so I've had to cut that out. So, there's just things like that really, but that's just I suppose part and parcel of getting a bit older.
Um Are you how diligent are you on Are you weighing everything? Are you running strategic deficits? >> No, none of that.
I just basically yeah, just um I kind of stick to a pretty standard diet. I can tell you if it's one it's very uninteresting, so I eat a couple of pieces of toast in the morning, sandwich at lunchtime with a couple of chocolate bars and then an evening meal, um you know, pasta, rice, whatever and uh probably a packet of biscuits, you know, just a small packet of biscuits before I go to bed. that's that's pretty much my standard diet during my hill climb season, which is not >> But the beauty of having a super simple diet like that means that if you cuz sometimes I'll talk to friends on the group ride and I'm like, "Oh, I want to lose a bit of weight.
" You're like, "Oh, talk to me about what you're eating." It's like, "Oh, I go out with work for the carvery on a Monday and Tuesday on me friends and we have the tacos. Wednesday's the wings.
" And you're like, "I don't even conceptually know where to begin to give them simple advice to start deficit here rather than like just skip the wings." But when you have someone with a super like repetitive diet. Mine's kind of like that as well.
I'm like porridge every morning. Yeah. It's like, yeah, just ditch the biscuits going to bed and you've already created the deficit.
>> Exactly. I know. It's really funny.
It's just and I I cuz I do kind of the same volume of training all year round. It's just those minor tweaks and just cutting these these these things out really does drop down the weight and if you're patient you do persevere it definitely does come down. Um yeah, so that that's kind of works for me and I've been used to doing that for quite a few years now really particularly on the hill climb season.
So yeah. Do you give Poggy any advice like, "Bro, drop the biscuits." He got me.
No, I think I don't know what kind of watts per kilo he used to do but he must have been doing yeah, a lot. I would have thought he would have done average power. I don't know.
Probably if he took 3 and 1/2 minutes out of me I don't know. 450 for like Yeah, I was going to say 440, 450 something like >> Yeah, probably yeah. But then again, you know, he's a lot more aerodynamic than me riding.
So I ride everything out the saddle. I do the whole climb out the saddle of 45 minutes. Whereas he is seated and much more aerodynamic which will have a factor on the fast you know, there was some sections which were quite fast kind of thing where he would have taken away loads of time out of me basically just cuz my position.
So Did you staying on that topic of nutrition and fueling, how did you fuel the effort? Um I just had a you know, decent breakfast. Had a McDonald's on Friday.
The man beats Poggy off of McDonald's. So um yeah, it was it was pretty suboptimal. I've not really got the same support as he has around him.
So you didn't go like I got to do 180 g of carbs an hour or anything? No, I didn't do any bicarb. I do that for the hill climbs but I didn't do that.
I just didn't have any of that. It was but it was very you know, it was very I didn't really know what to expect to be honest because I came in really late on Friday. So I didn't have any option other than the McDonald's on Friday.
Yeah. And then Saturday was pretty much just kind of normally I my weakness is I get to a new place in the first day and I just try and go and smash every single KRM in in the area. Uh and I was specifically told by lots of people not to do that if I was going to do well on the event on Sunday.
So I was very restrained and conservative. I didn't do that. I just took it very easy.
And then um yeah, I think we went out for a pizza and pasta and things on on Saturday evening. So there was no real specific dietary uh nutritional uh thought behind the uh behind the challenge. Given that you're working at McDonald's 2 days before or 24 hours before the race, am I to conclude from this there's not a lot of aerodynamic work done in the wind tunnel?
>> No, no, there's nothing. No, no, I was um there was it was it was yes, it probably make you laugh. I I went out there and they deflated my tires in the airplane and I didn't have a pump out there.
So I was riding the climb at like 30 PSI. Like could only feel it with your hand pump. Yeah, I I yeah, so I did I um I was I could feel it kind of bouncing up and down slightly when I was riding out the saddle.
I was thinking, yeah, this is probably not very good and it's probably costing me a few few watts here. Oh, lucky you didn't have the new zip. Just sent me a set of their new NSW 535 wheels, I think it is.
But they have the built-in tire pressure gauge. I haven't used them yet but it displays on your computer what your tire pressure is. >> Really?
>> But I was thinking, yeah, this is a good thing but it also could totally crack it. You know, one of those days you just forget to pump the tires and you're you're a hill climber, you're solo and you look down and be like 22 PSI. Like that's not helping the morale.
>> Yeah, yeah, and it's funny actually cuz I was the part of GCN the production team in Italy came out and one of the guys was on the start line with me and I said, "Do my tires feel really low to you?" And he squeezed them. He said, "No, no, no, no, fine.
" And afterwards he came back to me said, "Yeah, your tires were absolutely awful. Why on earth didn't you pump them up?" I said, "I didn't have a pump.
" But do do you wonder if you optimized for those bits like I I don't even mean pumping the tires but even the type of tire, spending some time with aero, you know, pushing the 180 g of carbs for the effort, how much more performance there is? The you know, probably there is a little bit but um at the same time I did do I did do you know, a really good looking at my sort of power data for that 44 minutes doing around 400 watts. That's kind of about towards my best.
Yeah, that's kind of almost best performance really. So um there were probably some you know, small marginal gains I could make like by thinking about tire pressure and diet things before but you know, I always like to ride on feel as well. Like I always find I do my best rides when I just go purely going on feel and that's what I did really.
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Did you have that moment, you know, I've only had a few hill climbs but it's kind of equally comparable in a time trial where you come out with a stark gaze, you accelerate, you know, you've got that initial get up to speed, accelerate and then you kind of settle into it >> Yeah. and you look down and it's like 580 watts and you're like, "That doesn't feel too bad. I kind of think I might be able to Today might be the day I can hold that.
" And then you fast forward 60 seconds later you're like, "Oh, that was a mistake." >> Yeah, yeah. I was a little bit yeah, cuz everyone you know, typically in a mass start hill climb event everyone goes out like an absolute rocket.
So you feel there's an element of pressure feeling like you have to keep up with everyone. But I just yeah, I I was pretty controlled and I always find again the hill climb performances and the hill climb kind of scene that you have to be really controlled in your effort. It's probably the same road racing kind of thing that as soon as you go over that tipping point you just your performance as you say given an example there just goes drastically downhill really very quickly.
So um It's one of those you're trying to somehow keep it right on the edge >> Yeah. without but if you cross the edge there's almost no coming back. >> Yeah, that's exactly it and I find particularly going into the nationals in in a week's time on a 2-minute climb that's a really hard effort to gauge because you have to obviously go very hard but at the same time you don't want to go out too hard that you're going to absolutely die in that second half.
So you've just got to have that ability to kind of manage that really and it's it's it's quite difficult. What is it like a 700 watt effort? Uh probably be like between 620 and 650.
I don't know. It's just depends. It's about 2 minutes 20.
>> pace. >> Yeah, 2 minutes 20 I think is the was the winning time from 9 years ago when the British nationals were held there. Yeah, so um Yeah, it's going to be hard.
It's kind of cool as well to hit like such a short event. I wish we had a few more of them in Ireland. It's like I think more people show up when it's hill climb just feels like some sort of should be against the Geneva Convention somehow that it's just this 45 minutes of pure on the edge torture.
>> Yeah. At least with 2 minutes it's kind of like, right, it's over. >> Yeah.
It is although the the short efforts of 2 minutes I find them even you have to go you have to go so deep. It's it's mentally pretty difficult and and it's such an explosive effort really. Um And also there's a lot more people I always say in the hill climbs in the UK, if you go over about 4 minutes you eliminate like 80% of the field.
Whereas 2 minutes there's a lot more people who can who can win that really. So it could be anyone's game. Um because you look at even a you know, what what's Wellens?
He must be 75 kg. Like Van der Poel 74, 75 kg. Like the Poggio in Milan-San Remo.
Like very hard to drop them two boys going up that even if you're Pogacar. >> Exactly. Exactly.
Yeah, so you know, the weight is not overly it's more just and I I've been told you said yeah, 2-minute climb it's really just pure power kind of thing. The weight don't don't be too concerned about the weight really. I think it's power plus air in your tires could be the unlock for you.
>> Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I'll definitely be having a proper I'll be I'll be checking carefully the air tire pressure for that one. Are you thinking the McDonald's could be a super station now?
>> Um yeah, maybe. Yeah. Um I probably I normally have a celebration McDonald's after the event.
Probably not before on this one. It might be the unlock. It might be the unlock.
Did you get a chance to chat with Tadej? I did. Yeah, so we had like there was a big stage where everyone came on to afterwards um and he gave the prizes out and he said, yeah, very very fast ride, very good.
And he sort of shook my hand and yeah, he just seems like a really nice sort of humble guy really and just yeah, um it was obviously quite a local event for him. So in a way it's quite important cuz it was kind of his way of giving back to this community and suppose I suppose you know where he grew up. Um which is probably one of the reasons probably why I wanted to come across across the line in first position rather than come across in second but uh he should have done his research he should have done he should have >> rage.
>> Yeah, he should >> Like he secretly wasn't targeting the tour Exactly. secretly target This is it. This is the highlight of the season.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um He's going back and he's not talking to him or his girlfriend for the rest of the day. The coach is sacked everything.
Probably yeah. Who is this Andrew Feather? I'm going to destroy him.
But yeah, no the one thing I did regret actually cuz obviously there we were in like a VIP area after the event and um it was only like 10 minutes in this area and he was there and I could have got a photo with him and I didn't. I was thinking like when I rolled down the hill I was like you're not going to probably get this opportunity again. I should have gone and asked for a photo you know cuz he had just won sort of you know won the event and uh But yeah, never mind.
In hindsight it's a great thing but um I still got the photos I was on the stage with him and stuff so that's that's that's enough for me I think. And the craziest thing with Poggy is like we are witnessing maybe the greatest person to ever ride a bike. And as kind of infuriating as it is as a fan especially if you know my typical experience all season has been I go and do my training ride in the morning and I come home to watch the last 50 60k of insert classic here Flanders whatever.
Yeah. And you come home and Poggy solos and it's like it's just like watching a tele voice training ride. He's like he's ruining cycling.
But you I don't know it's kind of it is difficult to step back from that and appreciate just the enormity of how good this lad is. He's transcendent. He's he's Jordan.
He's George Best. He's Isn't >> He's just the greatest ever. >> Yeah, he's just incredible.
I mean you know you look at every gap he's got in every race it's just amazing and he's just so versatile as a rider um and um yeah, it's just incredible and he just looks so smooth when he rides so you know there was some of the Slovenian television footage of this you know the Poggy challenge that he did and he just looks so smooth and it's the same in the races you know Lombardi and stuff the day before. It doesn't look like he's hurting and it's it's that which is which is pretty impressive really. You just wonder whether anyone's actually putting him at his limit.
Yeah, I remember having Fred Wright on the podcast and Fred was talking about Tour of Flanders. He got in his words kind of the Fred break you know the early break for the day where >> Yeah. the GC or the the main favorites just going to let it go.
So Fred was in that move. I think it was the last year or the year before. And then Van der Poel and Pogacar got clear.
Main favorites for race. They rode across to the break. Everyone else was dropped apart from Fred.
>> Right. So now it's Fred, Van der Poel, Pogacar. Fred's just sitting on the back.
Yeah. And he said they looked at him the way when you're like a cat one and a cat four sits on the back of you in like a handicap race. Where you're just like oh this dude's no threat.
I'm not even going to look for him to do a turn. He said they looked at him like that. He's like I felt like this small.
Like they didn't even acknowledge me as their peer. Like they didn't flick the elbow once. It's like I was just pained in the wheel trying to hold on for as long as I could as the two of them traded and then eventually they just rode away from me.
It was just humiliating. >> Yeah, it's it's just it's just a massive yeah it's just I mean yeah, the disparity in the levels it's just incredible really. You haven't had that really before and um yeah, it's it's amazing but at the same time he seems like a really nice guy and you know like I say very humble and sort of even on the prize ceremony you know the event was was about him really you know you know he he was obviously the star of the show and everyone was coming to to to watch him and to look at him.
So there was an element as I said in previous articles I sort of crossed the line thinking actually this is I'm not really I'm not really supposed supposed to be here. This is all about him really. And uh but at the same time you know when he was giving the prizes away on the ceremony and and on the stage he was very sort of you know he he was putting the riders up on a pedestal really which was really nice cuz obviously you know he's he's he's he's he's incredible and uh I thought that was just a really nice touch and um yeah, he just just you know his his parents were there.
His parents were kind of you know they were sort of supporting the event and stuff and I think they did a lot of the work in the organization things so it was a it was a nice local event and the Slovenian people are so friendly. They're really really friendly. >> What a place to ride a bike as well Ljubljana bike packed through it last year and it's phenomenal.
I think everyone's sleeping on Slovenia. It's phenomenal. >> It's absolutely incredible.
They are so friendly and the roads are so amazing over there. They've got such a fantastic cycling infrastructure. Some of the roads have got these dedicated cycle lanes and things.
I suppose a lot of you know it's it's it's because of him really and he's become such a you know a huge iconic person within the country really so but yeah, it's amazing mountains and everything. Tiny population Roglič Poggy Yeah. >> Mohorič >> Yeah.
Jan Tratnik Mhm. Uh you know they Jani Brajkovič back one generation ago won criterium the Dauphiné. Like it's some heritage of cycling for a really small place.
>> Yeah, it's incredible. >> Uh Andrew I really appreciate your time. You're going to be dining out on this story for a long time.
Just going to has struck me as our name of Feather is no real surprise that you're going to appeal well. Yeah. But no it's good it's good event.
I'm pleased I've done it so yeah, onwards to the uh to the nationals in a few days time. I appreciate you mate. Thanks.
Thanks very much. Cheers. Thank you.
Have a good day.