A world tour mechanic has touched thousands and thousands of tools and products over the course of his career. But which ones does he recommend? Which ones does he swear by?
And which ones does he absolutely despise. Today we're getting the truth. Unfiltered.
Jacua mechanic Craig Gator steers us on this journey. Welcome to the podcast, Craig. Craig, welcome back to the podcast.
>> Thank you. >> Good to have you back, mate. polls social media and there was like an overriding question like you've been around some of the best products, some of the best riders.
You've seen every fad from product to components to tool come and go over the course of your career working on the bikes. I want to try and get to the heart of the tools, products, components, bits and pieces that you just couldn't live without. the stuff you've loved over the last, you know, 15 or so years.
When I say that question, does anything jump to mind instantly where you're like, "Oh, I absolutely I love that." >> Well, I used to say that my hammer was a favorite tool cuz you could use it anywhere, but um we we don't really use it too often anymore. Um, but yeah, I would say that just the simple Allen keys, uh, probably the most common used tool that you you'd use now, Allen keys with a with a torque wrench and and you can almost basically more than 3/4 build a bike with a set of Allen keys.
Yeah, I've gone through a fad of I was buying very cheap tools and I was buying tools on like Teimu and Alibaba and stuff and my dad was flat out just giving me abuse on it cuz he's like they're just going to break. They're just going to break. I'm like they're not it's a great it's a great spanner or whatever for 4 and fair enough nearly all broke.
So, I've kind of gone the other direction in the last while and I started buying slowly because they're expensive, but I'm starting to accumulate like I bought a Abby Tools pedal wrench last week. Have you used these? >> Not the pedal wrench, but I've got a few of the other tools from from Abby.
[clears throat and cough] >> Yeah. Like the construction on them just feels like I don't know. Like there's love and care gone into the construction of it.
You can tell it was made by somebody who like loves cycling. >> Yeah. Well, I um and they're quite light as well, the tools in general compared to other other tools.
Um I actually have a small uh we have our normal tool boxes, but when we travel away, like I said, I'm I'm off to China on the weekend and uh the the big toolbox is just too heavy to take. So, I take a smaller version and uh it's actually got quite a few epy tools in it that are that are light and strong and and really good to use. >> So, if we kind of maybe segment this and break it down, like one of the areas I find myself working on the bike most is just drivetrain.
And I haven't really settled on a good way of maintaining the drivetrain. kind of my current workflow is, and everyone's going to give me for doing this, but I clean the chain with diesel to strip the chain and then I've taken it off maybe once a month and I'm dropping it into, you know, like the crock pot dynamic have this crockpot. You drop the chain in with a bit of wax, wax it up, and that kind of lasts me a month to six weeks.
As long as I'm kind of diligent with wiping it down with a rag and then reapplying the drip wax, that seems to work pretty well for me. But I'm sure there's definitely a better way of doing this. What are you guys doing for drivetrain maintenance?
>> Um, well, I mean, yeah, it is it is common that probably every mechanic in in the history of being mechanic has has reverted to using diesel at some point or another. Um, it's probably not the best cuz it it it actually gets in inside the pins and and cleans them all out so that there's there's nothing inside anymore. But um but but it does uh yeah it's more of an aggressive type.
Uh we we use a typical your standard factory uh biodegradable degreaser or or normal degreasers that that you can buy off the shelf in any shop. Um and then yeah, depending on where we're racing, what we're doing, we'll either use uh wax chains or we'll use a um we've got some lubes that are basically like a wax that that uh are sort of low um low friction um and good for dry weather. And then and then depend Yeah.
If you if you've got bad weather, then you need sort of a wet weather lube that's uh a little bit heavier duty. And um but yeah, it's it's it's pretty standard, but wax chains seem to be the way most people are going these days. Yeah.
So, just putting this together into an actionable list for people or bits they can pick up. So, you need something to be cleaning off the drivetrain like you were saying like a biodegradable cleaner and then you think two different types of so you have a wax drip on wax we'll say and then a wet weather lube and that's kind of your drivetrain and package. Yeah, basically.
Yeah. >> Nice. And then so when we get on to cleaning the bike, actually recently I live in a apartment, so I'm upstairs and there's no access to running like obviously there's access to running water.
I have showers and taps and but I don't have a place I can clean the bike that's pretty good inside the apartment. I don't have a balcony or anything. But I recently got a power washer, like a bike specific one.
I think Mukoff's the brand. And I've been blasting the bike out of it with that. And so I'm using bit of muk off or washing up liquid if I'm short on muk off.
Rubbing the bike down and then blasting it with the power holes and towel drying it off. If I'm building out that package for cleaning the bike, what are the bits I need around that? >> Um [clears throat] well, our our bikes we simply use uh just your normal dishwash liquid to do it.
you can you can buy your um your Mukoff stuff and and things like that. We had Muk Off as a sponsor a few years ago and um they actually do quite a good bike wash. I use it on my car cuz it leaves a bit of a waxy surface over it as well.
Um but yeah, I think the power washer is the bit that you have to be careful of. You don't want to you don't want to spray it too heavily into the bottom bracket area or the the bearings in your hubs on your wheels. um that's where you tend to get water pressed in through the bearings and and and eventually they they end up uh getting damaged.
Um but yeah, in in general terms of washing like that that's the basic uh principle of washing a bike is is spray it with a with either soapy water um and then you you dry it down. It's always handy if you've got like an air compressor um to blow the water out of everywhere, but that's not always accessible for for many people. So, drying it with a with a towel or or something is also quite fine as long as you haven't power forced water into the into all your bearings and stuff.
>> Yeah, I say I was probably guilty of that when I used especially if I'm out in Jerona or something. you just stop at the garage on the way home, stick 2 in and power blast it. If you do do that or you're using something like a mukoff and you think you're getting water into the bearings, can you blow that out with the compressor or do you just need to strip them apart?
>> You can blow it out. Um like most bearings these days are sealed bearings. So if you're if you're using high high pressure water, [clears throat] you have the the option that there is the possibility of the water getting in.
But if you if you every now and again if you just put a little bit of grease over the outside of the um of the bearing and then the and then the dust caps on onto your wheels or most bottom brackets these days have a a little cap that goes over the outside of the bearing. Um and it's got a small layer of grease around there then then that helps protect the water from getting any further into the bearing. >> That's a that's a great tip.
And are you just letting the bikes drip dry, towel dry? How are you drying them after that? >> Uh we we always use uh we most of the time we have an air compressor.
We've actually just got these little uh things that look like hair dryers now. They use a Makita battery. I guess different brands have have different things.
And it's uh it's like a like a haird dryer, but it blows the blows the water out of all the areas of the bikes. And we use that when we're traveling without without the truck. I've seen them.
They look Yeah, I think I've seen Dynamic have one. I think Mukoff have one as well. I haven't got one yet.
I've never played with them. They look interesting, though. >> Yeah, they're quite good.
And And I I think um uh they're they're only around sort of 50 to 70 for for one of these things. You probably get them at a cheaper price somewhere else. Um but yeah, we've we've been using it and um they're they're really good when we're when we're traveling overseas with at races and we don't have the the luxuries of having our vans or our trucks with us.
>> So the just to to recap for people sort of again making it tangible. So the kind of bike everyday washing you need some sort of pressure washer uh like washing up liquid will do if you don't have a muk off for cleaning it. A bit of grease around the bearings.
You want to have the grease handy and then also something for drying the bike like that new heater sounds ideal if you can stretch the budget on it. And then in terms of maintenance, we kind of opened at the start saying Allen keys and hex uh set of hex wrenches do most of the work. Now, if you were to kind of have a a really lightweight tool box that people are bringing, you know, in the back of the car to races and stuff and there's like four or five tools in that, what are people putting in that that are kind of essential to do 90% of the jobs?
>> Yeah, I I think uh it's pretty simple. You need a a set of Allen keys, the hex ones and the and the standard ones, and then uh uh screwdrivers. Um, you only really need four screwdrivers if if you need them at all on a bike these days, but uh the a small and a big Phillips screwdriver and a small and a big flathead screwdriver.
Um, and then obviously your most chains have the chain links now. So, so the little, you know, the little pliers that pop the link apart or or if you need to put a new link back in. Um, and you can almost uh you you can almost get away with just about that.
>> And for tires, because this is an area that's really popped off in popularity in the last few years. And if you talk to some of the gravel guys, they're nearly changing tires every day. They're riding a course like Unbound, and then the next day they're pre-riding it again and the course has changed, so they're changing tires.
A lot of them have pro mechanics with them. But for people that aren't lucky enough to have pro mechanics and they're changing out their own tires and they're filling new sealants, what's the two okay bits and pieces I need to be regularly changing tires out when I'm running tubeless? >> Um, all you need really is a set of tire levers.
Uh, most tires go on and off pretty easy onto tubeless rims or or hookless tubeless rims. Um, and then your sealant. Uh, probably helps if you have a spare, uh, you don't always need it, but a spare rim tape in case the the rim tape gets a hole in it anywhere uh, inside inside the rim.
And then, uh, obviously just your tire and your and your sealant and and you're pretty much set to go. And >> what's the hack if the tire doesn't go on very well? Like say we know some tire brands of wheels don't play well together.
Vtori and Zip don't play super well together. And >> yeah, generally uh if if you try to it's difficult to explain, but if you try to obviously you put half the tire on first and then you go around and and seat the tire in. But if if you keep it in the middle of the rim and and and sort of pinch grip the where the beads used to be on the on the tire, um it actually gives a bit of a slack spot where it's it's a bit easier to get on.
If it's really difficult to get on, you can revert back to the the tire levers where if you hold one end of the tire and you slowly wedge your way around uh until it pops in. But yeah, there are a couple of brands that are are pretty uh difficult to get on, but in general, most uh generally go on okay. >> I just had a tire like a couple of months ago just broke my heart and I ended up reverting to letting them steep in a warm bath of water to try and get the rubber to be a bit more pliable so I could just pull it apart a bit more.
Like my girlfriend came in, I'd like strip down to just my boxer shorts cuz the sweat's everywhere from like pulling this and she's like, "What are you doing?" There's tubeless sealant everywhere all over the apartment. And I was like, "Don't worry, it's under control.
" >> Yeah, we >> doesn't happen to you now. >> We used to have that with continental [snorts] tubulars. They were like uh firing a bow and arrow across a a field.
They were just about impossible to get on. Uh the stick with tires pressure. We're seeing a lot of these on the-go little mini electric pumps now.
Is there any real application for those for a mechanic or you just still old school track pump? >> No, we um we in in JCO all the riders uh they get to choose their tire pressure. Uh some guys ride really really low and some guys ride a little bit harder.
Um there is recommendations um with um body weights to what pressure you should run on on on our KEX tires which is what we use. Uh but most people generally tend to run in in our team sorry and JCO tend to run between 3.7 3.
8 bar and 4.5 to 4.8 bar.
>> Yeah, this cool tire pressure calculator. We actually have a tire pressure calculator as well. I'll link it below.
That's really good for each brand, rider, conditions, you know, and tire pressure gauges are so cheap as well now that there's almost no excuse to not dial in. I'd actually that's one thing I've added in the last year that's made a big difference. It's tire pressure gauge because my track pump like it's the old school like a clock and it's just not super accurate and you're like, whoa, I'm actually 6 psi different than what I thought I was when you put the gauge on.
Yeah, we we uh we always use the gauge uh quite often when we're away at races with the truck. We'll use the compressor to pump all the tires to we we sort of have this habit of our maximum tire pressure is five bar uh because we ride hookless rims. [clears throat] So, we'll pump them to five bar uh the race bikes and then uh within half an hour before the start of the actual race because you could be preparing hours before you actually get to the race.
And when the race starts, we'll half an hour before or so we'll put in the exact pressure with the with the gauge to um so the rider has exactly what they want. Is there any mechanics used to be famous for, you know, these crazy workaround and hacks to make stuff work where it didn't always work. Does the equipment now just all play so well together or is there still a need to hack and budge stuff together?
Um, we're a little bit limited these days because uh there's obviously as as the years go by, you used to um not take shortcuts, but you used to make do with what you had and you could get things to work and adapting things, chopping things up, uh rearranging stuff. But now you're uh you're not allowed to actually uh alter most parts on the bike because of the UCI rules. Um, I can't remember the word for it off the top of my head, but it's uh yeah, you're basically not allowed to change anything as it should come in the box, but we had a bike in uh yesterday actually in our service course here in Italy and um the computer mounted had uh it wasn't one of our team bikes.
It was somebody asked us to fix it and the computer mount had broken off the handlebar. So, we ended up uh putting a small aluminum piece inside the handlebar and then and then uh epoxy gluing a a new mount on for the guy and uh within 2 hours it was uh it was just like brand new. But but yeah, >> you know, I'm genuinely proud of my little man cave, my escape, my safe place.
It's not glamorous by any means. It's crammed into the spare room in our apartment with bikes stacked in the corner, boxes everywhere, and the smell of chain lube is just kind of hanging in the air. But in that corner, that's where the work gets done.
That's where I switch off from everything else, and I lock in on my training. And the centerpiece of it all, it's the Wahoo Kicker Bike Pro. Honestly, it's the ultimate man cave.
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Okay, let's pivot to the opposite of stuff that makes your life hell. Products that you've used through the years that just made your blood boil. Like to kick off for me, I loved tubler tires, but I also hated tubler tires.
Like I so many nights just trying to stretch a tubler over a rim and like out of college the next morning it' be 12:00 at night and it's like oh hate my life. They for me were a killer. Is there anything that sticks out that you were like hated it?
>> Yeah we uh obviously those days uh it's quite good they're gone now. We we had I think some of us old fashioned mechanics were so used to it um that you ended up just putting up with it and doing it even though you didn't like it. I remember the first years of uh Jacob or of Green Edge.
Uh I turned up to training camp in December in Australia and I had the team was brand new so we had 35 sets of wheels to do tour down under and national championships and things with all brand new continentals. We didn't have any rims to stretch them on and I think I lost most of the skin off my fingers doing it. and uh and after about five tire uh putting five tubulars on, I was thinking there's no way I'm going to get them all finished before we have to actually race.
But um yeah, thank God those days are long gone. Tubless is uh is much easier now. You you also have uh we we actually for a small period um we were running uh um inner tubes on our spare bikes on the on the top of the car because the the sealant was drying out a little bit in the heat and the tires were leaking uh air.
So we were putting inner tubes in, but then you you have the same issues. You put the inner tube in, the tires difficult to get on and and then you end up pinching the inner tube as well. So, so that was a bit of a nightmare.
But I think in this day and age, like currently, the um the most dreaded uh thing to do is is changing headset bearings. Although the the system is so simple, uh somewise crack decided to put brake cables up through the center of uh bearings. Now, so to change a set of headset bearings, you have to uh disconnect all the disc brakes and uh and then rebleaded all the disc brakes.
And it's just a massive task to to change a bearing. >> Yeah. Where does that line between like innovation and making something faster aerodynamically or look cooler versus the lack of utility?
Like we just can't work on it anymore. Like now I'm dating myself. I remember my first racing bike dur 10speed and it had the external cables.
take you about 90 seconds to change a gear or brake cable and it's just maybe I'm just not as good at working on the bikes now, but it seems like a step backwards in terms of changing cables. >> Yeah, I think uh some of the older bikes were were really simple. Um [clears throat] yeah, then they went through the phase of having internal brake cables to start with and then uh and then you'd get some that were you had a little bit of outer cable at one end of the bike and a little bit of outer cable going from your shifter around to the frame and and then in between you had nothing and it would get dirt in there and and and uh clog up the system so it wasn't smooth braking and and then now the you know if you don't see it It's more arrow and and everything is is basically inside the frames now >> uh forced through the handlebars um and then uh down through the fork and and through the frame.
>> So yeah, along with tubler tires here, I think we're going to have to throw internal cable routing into the most hated cuz I spent I'm not even kidding you cra I'm gonna say six hours trying to route my dropper seatost on my mountain bike. I oh I I had an absolute nightmare. I was trying to get a magnet set and trying to trace this magnet set through the frame and it just kept getting stuck at the bottom bracket and then I lost a magnet.
So I had to get a second magnet set to get the magnet out to start retracing the magnet thing. Oh, absolute nightmare. And it's just like surely there's got to be I know there is a better way.
Shramm have, you know, the AXS uh wireless dropper post, but I just wanted something cheap and cheerful for whacking around the local trails. And it broke my heart. But that wasn't even my worst experience rooting a cable.
My old time tri bike. I remember having to get to get fishing line. My dad used to fish a lot.
I had to get fishing line, super glued it to the end of a cable, and then used a hoover to suck the fishing line out the far side to pull the cable through. >> Yeah. Yeah.
We we still have uh well, [clears throat] now that it's changed to disc brake, it's a bit easier, but you still we still use the oldfashioned uh gear cable or brake cable to to feed into the disc brake cable and then uh feed it through the frames as well. So that the that system is still still in play. TT bikes are always a niggle because you've got cables going everywhere and and um whether they be electronic cables uh if you're running Shimano or or the handle the inside of the handlebars look like a botched electrician store and and um yeah, but but it's still the same thing.
You're still feeding the cables that when you're building a new bike, you're still feeding it through. There's no guide that you just push the cable through and it goes through all by itself and then you got to get it out the small hole at the other end of the bike and that's stuck around. >> What What's overrated?
Like some of the stuff I like ceramic speed these oversized jockey wheels, what's the deal with them? Like are they total waste of money or is there some application to that type stuff? Uh, look, I think if you're if you're looking for minimal gains and stuff, all that sort of stuff can help.
It can be an advantage. I I don't think it's uh super beneficial if you're just a a Sunday rider and and you've got money to spend and you buy all this stuff, it's not really going to make you go any faster. Um but I you know the the oversized jockey wheels and stuff the idea is to get less friction on the chain you know so that the bend in the chain going through your derailure and everything is is a bigger bend rather than a tight small bend which is where you start to get friction um which can potentially slow you down.
But but this is you know this is top top level sort of pros looking for really minimal game. So, I I think if if I was to put the same sort of specialist stuff on my bike, it wouldn't it wouldn't improve my cycling at all. Um, but for the the top racing guy, probably it it could help.
>> Could we throw bottom brackets into this new most hated category? like bottom brackets gone from your only two options were square taper or octa link to I almost need to go on to chat GPT now to figure out what bottom bracket I'm using minefield. >> Yeah, I guess >> numbers and letters mixed together.
>> Yeah, I guess it comes down to what crank system you're you're riding as well because obviously the bearing has to fit in the frame. Uh we're lucky we have uh Chima bottom brackets. Sema Chima and um we actually can just the cups of the bottom bracket just uh screw together into the frame um against the bottom bracket shell itself, not against the frame.
It's obviously threadless now. Uh and we can just uh punch the bearing in and out uh without changing the whole bottom bracket because effectively it's only the bottom brack. only the bearings that that wear out.
But, uh, ours are pretty straightforward and really simple to change. But, I guess you can when you get different cranks, different frames, and you get uh you start to get niggly systems there, which probably can throw a spinner in the works as well. >> Have you ever had a part so bad that you've had to kind of quietly replace it and rebrand it?
Like I was reading recently uh when Tyler Hamilton was racing the tour I think it was a Yuri podium with CSC look were one of the were the main title sponsor he was riding bikes with but the look frame wasn't super that year so he actually commissioned parley bikes to build a bike and he sprayed that bike in full look paint so it looked like a look bike but he rode a parley to the tour that year. Um, I was actually in the team that year in in CSC. Um, >> no way.
So, is that story true? >> No, I wouldn't uh I didn't know if Tyler did or not. Tyler actually he bought Sevel TT bike to uh to the team and um and it was painted as a look and Lauren Alabir liked the bike so much he asked if he could ride it in the prologue and then he got second and then uh apparently uh looks website crashed because everybody wanted to order this new bike that wasn't a look.
Uh, I know we had a um we had four or five Sevel frames in the in the in the truck um painted as looks. Um and I know Andrea Taffy didn't really like when we switched over to Sevel didn't really like the Sevel for um P rub so he had a C40 KO painted as a Sevel. that.
But I don't I wasn't aware of Tyler having a a a bike repainted a different brand of bike. It's possible. Uh back then things were were not as uh strict as that they were, but you could probably get away with some things back then, but these days you're not allowed to modify anything.
You're not allowed to rebrand it uh with different branding. So there's there's quite a few rules these days. >> Yeah.
So you don't think it's happening much anymore at all around? I wouldn't I don't think so. Um I mean most most world tour teams, you know, across the board, I don't think there's any team that really has a crappy bike anymore.
Um they're all pretty good bikes, >> stock standard. Um, but I think back in the day where they were starting to switch from, you know, aluminium, uh, from steel frames to titanium and then to aluminium and then to carbon, um, there you probably saw it a lot more than you would these days. If it is happening, it's probably happening now with like, you know, chain lube, like a team sponsored by Mukoff, but they don't like the Mukoff lube or something sort of, you know, different product inside the bottle or I know Dan Martin talked to me about his last year at UAE.
He couldn't eat the nutrition products, so he just was buying his own nutrition products and sticking them in whatever the team sponsor was that year and using them. >> Yeah, that that that still happens a bit. you've we've got uh in our team Luke Durbridge.
Um uh it's not that he doesn't like the product at all. It's he it it really upsets his stomach. So he has he has issues with that.
So he also supplies his own product and I mean once it's mixed in the bottle uh we've got we've got his name written on the top of the bottle. Um but the yeah I mean we have our our sponsors but yeah when you have uh 30 odd riders in a team or or you know big teams like these days I I don't think it it's pretty hard to find one product that can that can um suit everybody. Everybody's a bit different in in that term >> 100%.
Like I know my friends were raving about beta fuel and I remember going out and trying to ride having beta fuel and like sprinting to the local garage like I was very close to myself. I was like everyone else talking about how amazing it was. It's like ah nearly killed me.
>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. [snorts] There's there's all these different products that that uh some people are fine with.
Some people don't have an issue with it at all and then and then other people, you know, they they just can't stomach the product or things like that. Um, going back to the the um sponsors brands and that there is occasions where where we've changed sponsor and for example in the classics, it's um some riders have complained a little bit about the the chain lube that it's not lasting the duration of the race or it rains in the morning and then dries up. So then your chain gets all squeaky.
So we have in the past reverted back to in in certain races to what we're used to and what we know is has been good in the past until we've found a solution with a current sponsor to to improve the product. Yeah, we're seeing a few little hacks popping up more in the clothing space where you're starting to see, you know, someone cutting the sleeve off an arrow base layer and using that as a bandage or cutting a band off and using it to cover the boa dials on their shoes. We're increasingly seeing that one as well, especially Uno XLADs.
H spoke to U Abrahamson last week and he does that quite a bit. Yeah, you you also uh again you go back to some of the stuff. Um shoes is a particular one.
Um some teams are sponsored by one brand of shoe. Uh a lot of riders, it's again very individual thing. Uh different shoes are suited for different riders.
So sometimes it doesn't align with sponsors. So they'll also uh wear shoe covers or or or you know cutting things up to to cover logos or uh luckily a lot of shoe sponsors these days um uh if a rider comes from a previous team and and joins the team and they can't get used to the shoe that the team's using, uh the previous sponsor will actually make them shoes with no logo on it, which is >> is pretty nice of the sponsor because it's, you know, they're trying to sell their products. So, they would like their logo on it.
But, um, yeah, really specific things like that. There there's there's obviously there's always several reasons why why people cover stuff up and some people do it just for aerodynamics as well. You know, >> every rider chases that feeling.
The one where the bike just disappears, where the pedals turn easy and the road hums beneath you. And for a few fleeting seconds, everything just clicks. No effort, no noise, just flow.
That moment isn't luck, it's engineering. The kind that only comes from obsession. For over 20 years, Parley has refined the art of carbon.
Every layer placed by hand. Every angle tuned by feel and data until response, balance, and speed exist in perfect harmony. You don't notice a partly because it's flashy.
You notice it because it feels right. Because every input, every climb, every corner happens exactly how you imagined it would. Customer production, every frame goes through the same uncompromising process.
Traceable, tested, and finished by people who still believe craftsmanship matters. Parley doesn't chase trends. They chase that moment every rider lives for when the bike and the body move as one.
Parley Cycles, engineered for that feeling that keeps us coming back. Yeah. Yeah, I always wonder are m and I haven't seen it yet, but are we going to see mechanics launching and bringing their own products to the market because no one understands I guess product design happens when you see a problem reoccurring.
You're like there's no solution to that problem but no one is closer to the cold face of these problems on a day-to-day basis than you guys. Is there ever whispers among mechanics mechanics of oh I'd love to bring this out or I'd love to bring that out? >> Um you over the years I've I have probably heard it a few times.
Um, but generally when you when you keep having the problems, you're always so close with the sponsor that that you're actually just relaying it or they're even at races when you when the problem keeps occurring and they sort of tend to be the ones that um go away and and um solve the problem or or redevelop their product. Um, so potentially it could work like like you know mechanics could come out with their own you know we've got a mechanic in our team and he's uh he goes and buys his own uh soap liquid for washing cars and and things like that cuz he's so particular about all this stuff and I don't know how much he spends out of his his own pocket to bring all these different bits and pieces but in terms of actually designing stuff uh I I don't know I I guess some mechanics in the past have have gone on from being mechanic to actually working in the industry where they're working with the the companies to design stuff and and use their feedback from what they're used to to to help design better products. >> I love that.
I love that. Greg, appreciate your time. Pass my best on to Steve Cumins.