Today we're pulling back to CON on the world of professional cycling. I'm joined by cycling superstar Jonas Abrahamson of Uno X, a rider at the very highest level of air sport. In this episode, Jonas reveals exactly how world riders structured their winter training and why most amateurs are doing this completely wrong.
He's also gna talk about the surprising reason that he trains with heat protocols all year round. And maybe the wild story of all this conversation, how he gained a whopping 18 kilograms to transform himself from struggling professional to t France stage winner. This is a deep dive into the science, the strategy, the sacrifice behind the proycling lifestyle and I promise youl never look at your own training the same way again.
Jonas Abrahamson Jonas Abrahams welcome to the Roman podcast. Thank you so much. How are you?
Try hur? >> Yes, I'm good. A little bit tired.
Was out six hours today. So, so it's nice to come home and have a rest tomorrow. And I think that's a perfect place to start a conversation because we're also intrigued about what proyclists are doing for the winter because there seems to be different I like to stock strav of proyclists and there seems to be these different schools of t on some guys riding super easy and the podcast can get access to their coaches to kind of validate.
So for example the Estana guys Vasil Anastopolis when I chat to they ride super easy. They do like a lot of long zone one rides bottom of zone two rides. But then you look at UAE and Civicov like they're all the on Fat Max rides.
They like look like the 10 watts below it being a tempo ride all the time. Do you have like a particular philosophy that you follow or what does your coach subscribe to? No, I just like to go hard on every training.
So in winter training special last year it was very very hard like in December it was like all out two three times a week eh workouts with 30 35 hours a week. So maybe this year I will try to not going so hard. I think that's not so good to like try to relax a little bit more in November, December and have some easy maybe some LT1 Fatmax rides but not too too hard because the season is long in the proon now we are starting like in January and we are finish in the middle of October and then it's very important to to save the legs a bit and train easy the two three months you can train.
Ola on the podcast ol coach coaches helping me a bit with my trainer Lars Holm eh and he coming with a lot of good input learn a lot of Olav in the altitude camps we have been together in two times in Nivada and I think he a very good signing forward team to have him and he a lot of experience about altitude and to use like like tat on the on training eh like been much better to like maybe going little bit more easy because then I can use my like that to like find the perfect sweet spot on LT1 and LT2 and V8 max and that I think maybe that reason maybe I take some more step this year to have not going full gas every training but a little be smarter and using like that special on training. So break it down for me. You're riding a lot like 35 hours is a lot even for a world or a rider.
It's probably at the upper end of the volume that I've seen. Is that periodized in any way? Are you like 25 30 35 back to 25 in a traditional three week on one week off or how do you approach distribution of duration?
Eh, now it depends a bit because like maybe you start to train in the middle of November and and then you are going on training camps and then you are going like 30 35 eh hours. In the start you like maybe start with 20 25 eh hours then you going on training camp two weeks maybe and then you have 30 35 and then maybe going home for Christmas and then you have eh 2025 again and then we are going for training camps and then the same 30 35 so it depends a bit when you have training camps and when the season start but I think it's important to have like step rest week for people have months to train eh for us have not so many months to train you have maybe November December and bit in January and then race start and then you also have training camps so you have to like be a bit careful between the trainings cap also because always when you go on training caps is always a little bit a little bit over limit of a lot of all out sessions with show other who is strongest so hard everyone is like pretty tired camps maybe maybe important to rest a bit also after training camps who's the king of the training camps chatting bahin not too long ago and is the king of their training camps can't be beaten in train Yes, I think Alexander like to like be the king of [Musikk] the effort sprints. So he strong but we will see next year when he is out of of a team who is the eh the king of a training caps.
>> We call it the Christmas world champion. You know the guy who is like so good in the winter and then you never see him in the summer. Yeah, we also have like the same and I think it's like important to like not going always 100% like full gas on training is it's important going hard but if you every time going like 100% and you have like lact like over your your eyes eh it taking so long time to restitude afterwards and then special me a little bit more better on that because before I was going like all out on all the V2 max sessions and then it taking so long time to rest so now I maybe going like 97 98% have a little bit left to like save my legs and then you restitude better when going all out on the train if I look at your strava it kind of looks like youve leaned into heat sessions quite a bit yes maybe I was one of Start with heat session back in 2019 with the project in Lillehammer.
Eh, I was there five weeks to test the eh to test the effect of heat training eh and I have very good eh good result after that. I think my we max was going from like 70 nei 74 to 84 om 5 weeks. So that was pretty good.
That's massive. So what what was the protocol you went for the five weeks? Now we was going five times a week 50 minutes in a heat a shower with heat like 37 I think it was like close to ja 35 37 degrees in the room and also we take on a shower so we get like the we feel it's very wet also so eh we riding inside there eh for ja five five times a Eh, weeks.
What skin temperature? Can you remember skin temperature? Yes.
After we try to have like over 38.5 38.5 to 39.
>> That's pretty miserable. >> Yeah. So was pretty hard.
Eh, I feel it was nice to not have a lot of clothes on because that's also a shit part to every time eh you are riding, you have like five, six jackets and you have to wash everything afterwards. And now I also try home to have the bathroom like 30 degrees. I don't need so so much clothes and then it's like easier afterwards to do cl like to wash in taking not so so long time are you just doing a base ride on it like below lact trash one like zone one zone two ride >> yes going maybe a little bit harder in the first 10 minutes and then pretty easy like under 200 wats is not so much for me so but den temperature is going very high eh often around 39 then you feel special that the last 10 minutes it's pretty hard but do you notice it like a decoupling of 200 wats is decoupling of your heart rate on power as the session progresses yes you see like the power the power cur is like the same.
Sometimes I go a little bit under because then I feel it's very hot and the hurt rate is going like this way. St like on like maybe 100 and then it in be like 150 to 160 on lower power. H rate also.
So train he very må du si >> how many times a week are you doing the heat sessions? Eh, I try to have like five times a week when I doing that. Eh, but I think it's also important to to think when you are doing the heat sessions also because after tour last year eh I was pretty tired and have a lot of stimul in in my legs and it happened a lot eh of things outside cycling also and then I also was doing like heat sessions eh and then I was maybe going too hard for my body.
I feel so so bad in my body after on this period last year I was completely finished and I think that was maybe a reason I was going like heat session off the tour France and I was not 100% restitute after and then then maybe eh like this year I have feeling flying and and have not going for heat sessions. I think it's important to to know when you are doing that you have a good fitness and not so much stimul on your body. I think it's a very good thing to do.
But if you have a lot of stress before and high fitness is maybe important to think about it because eh it's a very stress for the body also then getting so high hurt rate every day close to in five five days a week. So yeah eh so sometimes is also maybe a little bit too heavy so we have to think a little bit more eh what you are doing. Eh eh special when you have have a long season.
And if you're doing heat sessions five days a week, is there any sort of periodization in those heat sessions or is it just five sessions like every single week all year round? Are you pulling back a little bit into running into event for like a mini heat taper? Yeah.
Eh, I try to like have eh hvis if I have like three weeks, I try to to do it. And if it's like very heat eh on the races, I think it's smart to do heat sessions den you maybe need eh five workouts. at if you have a blood eh have more blood hemobin mass higher eh you have to do it like eh maybe four or five weeks.
So, and I also haven so not so much eh like good resultats on the hemoglobin mass from the heat training have much more for altitude. So I think the best part is special heat heat outside in the racing eh to to have a stimul before you come to heat races. That's very smart.
And >> in terms of altitude train, how many times per year will you altitude train? >> Yes, this last year I was doing it two times, one in February and one in May. Eh, and eh I feel that's help a lot for me.
I have very good eh we was taking the hemoglobin as before and after and think it was going up like close to 8% so that was pretty good. >> Yeah. So >> you guys go to Nevada normally?
Yes, we are going to love a lot of experience from there. And I feel also very nice play special in February. Then you can train in Granada and it's pretty good temperature.
Not so many Tenerif but that is not so easy to get hotels there. Eh, but you can be like unlucky and lucky in in Sera Nivada in February. This year I was very lucky.
car down two times the other day we can train from 2300 and going down without no problems so hopefully when I will go there in January this year also it's it's good that the temperature is okay so what's the protocol for altitude training how long do you guys go there for what altitude do you stay as and then do you train high or do you train low >> yes eh the lastly years we are going for the weeks I think maybe we try four weeks this year eh I also was a little bit high longer this year I was maybe three and a half weeks before we to France so I feel that was pretty good. Eh, and we try to first days maybe try high and then we are going down to to go for intervals in Granada is like not zero is like maybe from 8 900 to 1500 around there. Ja inters over 2000 >> and you sleep at like 2300 2500 >> eh yes just 2300 on the hotel there in da I have not tried to to sleep higher so maybe I can try that not possible in know what I think but is some atlas taking supplements any dietary changes like I think in altitude is very important to eat enough because maybe one of the main things what why you are going to altitude is to get more blood and then you have to have enough energy and vitamins and minerals to to to get the blood.
Eh, but I think it's like important to take iron and maybe magnesium and things like that. Eh, but not very very different but I think it's extra important to think what you are what you taking with vitamins what you you have to do eh when you are home but in Valun is special very important. So you don't be going there chasing race like kogs to the last years I have like maybe been on the same weight eh and I also feel maybe also getting a little bit more water inside your body also because you're training hard and you are in the altitude.
So maybe a bit a bit the weight is not going down but maybe when you coming home it's going a little bit down because then you also are used to the eh to have higher calories eh and we also was testing like how many calories I was burning when I just rest and that was pretty high in the altitude. And that's is very interesting also the athlet in the altitude it was very big different from athlet to athletes how many calories was burning eh on a rest day eh without training and that's a thing also what is important to think about if you are using apps to to log your food like every people is very different how much calories we are burning outside the cycling. Yeah, that was a lot.
Born sea level wrestling. >> I haven test that I feel pretty high because I I always to eat a lot. I also think you know we were speaking off like using hex and this new way of eating I think it changes your metabolism as well like I've noticed on a rest day now if I'm eating I'm not riding at all and say I have a weight los and I'm only eating 1900 2000 calories on a rest day I'm absolutely starving at that but I feel like that's been a change for me like years ago when I raised in France I would on 2000 calories a day and ride in that bad and you w hungry it more e this has an effect of you know obviously have to get one the dieticians like sam impid to actually some solid science this is my bro science theory on it feels like you're ring up the engine and you definitely the more you eat the more energy requirement you have gone forward yes like today on the on the training I try to eat pretty good and then also maybe I are going for like two today have 262 in average power on 6 >> yeah eh and normally I just maybe have 250 eh but today I try to eat very good eh and if you are eating good you also have 10 watts more in average and then also burning a lot more calories eating on training intervals also can produce more power and then also burn more calories for >> yeah so eh sometimes it's nice to like and also when you're eating more you have higher ehm you also like burning more calories so and you also rest better eh and you feel better on training.
And before I was like 60 kil eh read that was a crazy thing >> and then I was like always hungry all over time. Eh and it was like everything everyday thinking what I was eating. But now when I find my weight I I can just eat what I want and my my weight is very stabil before you like 72 >> no 78 maybe >> 78 so you got 18 kilograms that's a big big change.
Yeah. So before when I was eating eh like some shit in W season I was going up six se kilo. Eh but I am the same pretty the same in the off season maybe one kil up.
Eh but no my body is very stable. Eh find body find my my weight. So I don't have to think about every time what they are eating.
Eh, so that's very nice eh to not every time eh being hungry and thinking what you are eating. I can remember vividly at December training spin. I was on the back roads.
There was fog, wet leaves, potoles everywhere. I was riding on the descent one handed trying to stab this tiny little mode button and praying the battery would last until the final climb of the day. You know that anxiety the is it going to die anxiety?
It totally ruins your right. And the truth is for years that was normal. Every season I got into this repetitive cycle I'd end up buying a new set of lights in the winter.
Normally plastic lights, plastic brackets which would invariably snap, charging ports which would fail and batteries that would fade. Most lights feel very disposable. They're shiny for the winter and then strays into the bin of the winter.
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Go to exposure.com to check out their full range. I think you were a really important part and a cultural shift in cycling.
Like when I was trying to come through and trying to step up to be a pro cyclist, the template was in the you know the power nations, Holland, France, Belgium every rider they tried to make them into 62 kg climber. Like it didn't matter I was 6. at 770 king 68 k my director and he pinching my fat and he too fat too fat and I was like 68 kogs at 642 like I was like a skeleton I look like a prisoner of war but they tried to get everybody to become a climber they didn't understand culturally I don't think we understood that there's different types of writers and every single person doesn't need to try to maxim what per kilogram for a climb.
Yes. Yes. That's so true.
And I think it's special when I was started with recycling in 2015 2016 eh everyone will be like GC guy in tour France but my neighbor and my teammate is is a different person than me. And I found out what eh my potential was on like maybe be like a punch. I haven the eh the quality to be a climber.
Eh and that's a very important thing to think about that everyone can be a climber but in cycling, you can be like two 2 meter high, you can be 60 kil or you can be 100 kil but you can go to tour the front and win a stage but you have to find your way. Eh >> and that's very important what you think. What is your eh what can you be best on on in France?
Can you be a climber, a sprinter, a punchure and if I don't have going up 20 kilo in 2020, I have never come to Tur France and special also when you are going up and getting a little bit more explosive, you going easier to the climbs. You getting more power to to come to the important places in the races with cobblestones or crosswin. You don't using so much energy before climb.
I climbing faster than before because I'm much more fresh when I into the climbs. And I also was going from like 900000 in peak to 1500. Eh, and that's shows a lot what if you don't think you are a puncher or sprinter but you are too too less on weight.
Eh, everything is possible if you may g away get some more muscles and find out what what is your ja what what suits you best. Can you remember what the effect was on your power when you put on the like across the different durations like one minute, 5 minute, 20 minut. Yes, I remember before eh I was struggling to like going up to 650 in 30 seconds.
650 700 eh and now I can maybe do like eh 1100 in 30 seconds. Eh, that's a so big different. Eh, and also in one minute maybe have like six around 600 before like 850 900.
so big and was because I haven not fuel in my to like going full gas and also peak 5 seconds I think it's like 1400 or something now I know before it was like 950 I think so >> and for 20 minut say >> for the 20 minute power >> for how many minutes >> eh for 20 >> 20 Eh, I don't know but I think it's like 50 60 different pry much really big differences. But how how do you think for somebody listening to the podcast you know whether an amateur writer or pro writer and maybe their whole career theyve had directors coaches telling them they need to lose weight, they need to lose weight. How do you begin to find what the idea weight is for you?
Like how did that journey start for you? How did you how did you understand that you weren't better at 71 kogs at 78 kogs was better or why not 84? You get what I mean like why why land on 78?
>> Yes. Eh jeg been very lucky at jeg har been in un system siden vi startet 2017 and trust me all the time and special when I get first time getting two years contract eh when the team getting pro in 2020. Eh, I have to take the chance to go up.
But for for me before it was very difficult because every year if you don't have resultats, you don't get in contract next year. And it's not so easy the first two one first one or two years because you can go up a hill and take a a bag with 20 kil back. is very heavy.
Eh, but I think the reason I was like going up to 78 was like eh it's like it's I just eat normal and what I was thinking I feel was right and it end up 78 eh without thinking about it. So then maybe we find the perfect weight eh and also sometimes in France inv France I can be like 76 but I think I think it's special is very important special for young riders to have a little bit more eh energy and a little bit higher on a weight and then when we are going to a pro team or world team we have professional people around maybe you can lose some some weight and and also it's not good to like every every time be on the limits and I also have like maybe two times a year I have big goals and then losing a bit weight but then I have to go up again because everything like the blood and the muscles and you restitude much better when you have not on limit all the time eh and that's a good experience for me special when I was was 60 62 kilo. Eh, I my restitution was very very much not so good like no no I rest to much better between the races and and the and the the training rides.
>> Do you find this effect on your immunity? Do you get sick less? >> Yes, good question.
I also are much less sick now and also I think if I not have gain like 20 kilo my qubon haven eh grow in 17 nei 16 days before it to France. So I think that's also a thing when you have a little bit more muss and eh have a bit little bit more like body fat or something. Eh, you are not it's like not so easy to break break eh eller broke things when you are going to crashes also.
Did you do like a trainer the day after breaking your color? Yes, I was going on the home trainer and everyone was saying like Jonas you are not you have to take holiday you are not going to France. Eh, and I was saying yes I have to try to to I have to try to go to Tur France because I know shape is so good after altitude.
Ok, we give it a chance and five days after I was outside riding and the doctor in Manchester was saying like I was growing like a 10 years old eh boy. France days broke my col and everything is possible but nothing is possible if you give up and I'm so happy about not give up and give it a chance I was coming to France and get my first victory so that was amazing yeah I gna say talk me through that victory. How how life changing is that?
Yes, you have dream about that since he was starter cycling because t France is so big special nor heard about Parir og B or T Flanders on Lombardia we are just heard about to France and and the same was for me. France and you will get a stage win and watching like Tor Hus and guys like this when you a kid. Yes, Tor Husa was a big role model for me.
He was winning a lot of stages and it was so fun to to watch him on TV. And I will also win stage in France and after like a eh turbulence start of a season with a lot of sickness in the classics, it was amazing to get the victory and everything. You have getting your best season ever when you are getting a station to France.
So that was so nice and also the first victory from a team since we was riding first time in 2023 so it was a very big big for team also. So talk me to the actual day how did the race panel when you took that victory? How did the how did the win come about?
Yes, I feel this day have to go to the breakway and I feel have good legs. Eh, and then I was going from kilometer zero as always, trying to get pain in my legs. Eh, but it was not easy because special will last two years.
Every team will win a stage and it's not not many stages you can win on a breakway day. So it's like people not giving up to come to a break. So we go full gas first hour and I think I have like 390 in average first hour and I was thinking if I get catch now I'm rest of a day.
I was like, "Ok, I have to go to I think stage around 180 km and I think if I go up to e over 80 km maybe I get the most aggressive rider. So I have to go there and then I have to take the sprint and then I take the sprint and ja maybe I will and then I heard like eh Vanart and Vaner Polen Arn the leas coming up behind ok maybe I'm lucky I get top 10 and the way don't come up and then me and Mar Smith was working very good together the last 15k there was taking time out you like that grouped getting closer Yes. 20 30 seconds back and then I know from second last climb go full gas and so don't come up.
So me and SM was like going together there. Eh, and then I heard Vandrepol was behind very close but I know I have to be a bit call because Mar Schmid is very good to sprint and and if Vol coming up maybe he use a lot of energy to to catch us. So eh I think I was in the ender I was very lucky or eh the the tactic was pretty good that I was on the wheel of Mar Swed over time because this was so closed if I have been in front of him I think he will take me so yeah it was so nice to get the victory there eh I love what was your average power for today >> yeah I think it was close to 350 for Yeah.
380 something pretty high lot of pasta that >> yes a lot of pasta and rice and champ a lot champagne a lot of feeling feelings I don't think I was sleeping in too much to last night after because you have dream about that since you was child and is a lot of feelings ran whether you're a weekend warrior or a world rider the right tools can make all the difference enter 4i precision 3 plus parameter. The latest innovation from 4i to help you reach peak performance. The precision 3 plus parameter is a compact yet powerful unit.
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But it also feel like I know cycling from the outside it feels like you guys are superstars but a lot of friends in the paton and I know how insecure the job can be that you're going from contract to contract you're never too sure of your place in the team and you're kind of looking at results all the time when you win a stage tour of France that kind of changes everything you're in a very small lease group of France that give you a selfcfidence to build on that and that becomes the start now you think of what could be an incredible career? >> Yes, I hope so. Eh it's very big to have a stage to France.
Eh maybe if we win in Pariro B or T Flanders and world championship is bigger but special in Norway that everyone has heard about Victor France and eh also I think you maybe get a little bit more respect in the Pelton also when you get a stage into front. So that's important also eh >> eh but also for carrier eh eh I'm very happy in but you never know like it a lot of seeing for contract also to see what for for other teams what and your team what you can win a station to France and and also for the future in France also or other races but you show a team that you can win a stage into France then you show you can win also other races next year breaker take time bike i will take some days after bike i was calculating how many travel days have now was like 180 and the season is not left so then is important to take some days days days days days days days off and also going to japan for some criterium races and be nice to have rest before criter in Japan and rest a bit and see new things. Yeah.
And then just be some weeks some months home and just relax and be with family friends and girlfriend and yeah I looking forward to that also. >> What's the big objective for 2026? Yes 2026 I will try to go be in good shape in classics.
I was pretty good classic last last classics last year with second place in dor eh dst and hopefully I can be good in pariro b and to de flers and e3 g to that's the biggest goal for next year to be my best shape ever eh in in this kind of races >> so you go to al shoot again in February or March? Yes, I think we are going in the middle of January and be there for weeks. So hopefully that can be a good effect on on good shape in the classics.
>> Your girlfriend never sees you. >> No. Så it's not much time virtual relationship.
Yeah. Yeah. Like to go to rac sometimes.
That's nice and that will be nice in season to spend little more time. Thanks for chatten. Enjoy the offseason break and France stage winner.
Congratulations. >> Thank you so much.